Who is the most vulnerable to domestic abuse and violence? Women or trans women?

[rabbitwoman]

In the wake of SMP Robison's statements in Holyrod this week, I have seen so many people up and down twitter (and once in a real life conversation) that trans women are more vulnerable to domestic violence and abuse than women.

I am wondering exactly where this comes from and why it is said so confidently.

Does no one ever question it when they hear it? Just a very quick bit of mental maths shows me this is nonsense, knowing as I do dozens of women who have been victims of abuse and domestic violence, but I only know three trans women altogether.

How does this maths stack up, is it just an outright lie with no evidence or is there actual evidence and statistics to back it up? Because next time someone trots it out I would like to be able to rebuke it....

(although if it is true, surely that's a very concerning trend that we should be a lot more aware of?)

So does that mean that wives of transwomen are violent towards them? I don't think I've heard even one case of that reported in the press.

@HollowTalk

So does that mean that wives of transwomen are violent towards them? I don't think I've heard even one case of that reported in the press.

See my post below.

Or above depending which way you're looking at it!

@zanahoria

I know who is more likely to commit violence

Trans women are males and show no deviation from male patterns of violence.

This is exactly it for me.

I've never seen a reliable statistic that supports the view that transwomen are more vulnerable than women (or even anywhere near as vulnerable).

There are at least two reasons for that and one of them is as above.

I wonder if we should declare a moratorium on attempting to provide a rational analysis of statistics a claimant hasn't provided (SMP Robison) and meta-analyses that are not open publications and do not have plain language summaries.

Thank you, my friends.

This has explained it all very well.

Of course, when you think about it, really think about it, trans women are nowhere near as vulnerable as smaller, weaker women usually with children in tow, with less access to economic freedom, often from vulnerable minority groups. I cannot understand why all of a sudden people are just accepting that they are.

And then when you are bombarded with this rhetoric, from sensible people who you know are intelligent and often, abuse survivors themselves, you doubt yourself....

@TinselAngel

This idea that trans women are more prone to domestic abuse is a deliberate campaign to isolate trans widows.

Who do you think it is being alleged are the perpetrators of this abuse against trans women? It can only be us.

Look up Scottish Trans Alliances report about domestic abuse, and you will see that we are considered to be abusers if we do things such as "refuse to affirm our partner's gender identity" or "misgender". The language of abuse is co-opted and DARVO'd against us in order to silence and trap us.

From the moment that a trans widow's husband announces he is trans, any resistance whatsoever is now framed as abuse. If you don't immediately agree that the father of your children is a woman then you are an abuser.

Why it is that a man should suddenly become more likely to be abused rather than more likely to be an abuser, because of a feeling in his head, is never explained.

Read trans widow's stories and draw your own conclusions about who is most likely to be abusive in this situation.

It's becoming increasingly likely that the law on the Spousal Exit clause will be changed, partly due to completely unsubstantiated allegations made against us, that we deliberately prevent or prolong divorce so our exes can't get GRC's.

Of course the reality of that situation is it's actually more likely to be the trans widow who will be coerced into staying in the marriage longer.

Thanks for such a clear explanation.

It is so sick that people are equating a woman "misgendering" (in quotes because I don't personally believe in gendered souls and I use sex pronouns merely to denote sex) her husband with a husband beating or raping his wife.

Has someone said yet: this is not a competition - fix services, educate boys and men (predominantly)?

It’s absolute bollocks. I’ve seen it supported by a study before. The study counted “misgendering” as domestic abuse. The authors even admitted in the discussion that “misgendering” was the reason “trans women” were “more vulnerable” to “domestic abuse.”

I would check any stats they send you for similar or identical fuckery.

Sorry should have RTFT, see it’s already covered. The endless lies this movement produces are absolutely contemptible.

Has someone said yet: this is not a competition - fix services, educate boys and men (predominantly)?

Sure. Everyone knows this.

Not a competition though?

I don’t think it was women and girls, females, who made it a ‘competition’. It was males who have pushed to have access to the female single sex spaces needed for healing after suffering these attacks. That was a ‘competitive’ move not instigated by females.

And when told by women that they want these spaces for themselves, those women have been monstered and demonised and those males have doubled down as to their demands for access.

Those males did not stop and change tactic to secure the spaces needed for themselves and to leave the spaces women asked to remain single sex.

Saying ‘it is not a competition’ is yet another disingenuous attempt to shame women effectively.

@Helleofabore

Has someone said yet: this is not a competition - fix services, educate boys and men (predominantly)?

Sure. Everyone knows this.

Not a competition though?

I don’t think it was women and girls, females, who made it a ‘competition’. It was males who have pushed to have access to the female single sex spaces needed for healing after suffering these attacks. That was a ‘competitive’ move not instigated by females.

And when told by women that they want these spaces for themselves, those women have been monstered and demonised and those males have doubled down as to their demands for access.

Those males did not stop and change tactic to secure the spaces needed for themselves and to leave the spaces women asked to remain single sex.

Saying ‘it is not a competition’ is yet another disingenuous attempt to shame women effectively.

I'd say it shames mostly the Conservative party and their cuts to council and charity budgets.

I'd say it shames mostly the Conservative party and their cuts to council and charity budgets.

Really?

Yet, local councils are also the ones insisting that women’s spaces are forced open to accept a subset of males too to receive any funding to survive.

People in relationships with men are at higher risk of being a victim of dv.

@Helleofabore

I'd say it shames mostly the Conservative party and their cuts to council and charity budgets.

Really?

Yet, local councils are also the ones insisting that women’s spaces are forced open to accept a subset of males too to receive any funding to survive.

funding cuts to councils have been crippling services. Court services have been reduced. The number of police officers has been drastically cut. Everything is totally overstretched. Pointing to trans individuals as the culprits is a bit like this cartoon (hope it loads):

pbs.twimg.com/media/EOfoJH4WoAAeM-K?format=jpg&name=small

@wingscrow

I wasn't aware this was a competition...

Domestic violence is unacceptable whether it affects women, trans women or men.

That's what we should focus on.

This.

Oh look… a squirrel?

funding cuts to councils have been crippling services. Court services have been reduced. The number of police officers has been drastically cut. Everything is totally overstretched.

Yes. This is part is true.

However, it is also true that the trans lobby groups and some trans people also need to take responsibility for the way councils are forcing the established provisions for females to have to accept a subset of males.

Both can and most likely are true.

Pointing to trans individuals as the culprits is a bit like this cartoon

You’re what? Telling me and all the others on this board fighting for preserving women’s rights, and in particular those attempting to preserve single sex spaces that we are like ‘racists’, or xenophobes?

At least get creative and find something that we haven’t seen or heard before.

And you believe that you are on the right side of history?

Women wanting single sex spaces = xenophobes/racists/capitalistic monsters.

Well done catharina. Well done.

That's what we should focus on

And it is nice isn't it that some people like to think that they can direct women to remain focused on the 'big picture' on eradicating voilence in general because that is the 'moral' thing to do.

So that women who are fighting to preserve the single sex spaces that they and other women need to heal and for protection can be portrayed as hateful. As obsessed. In whatever negative light feels best.

No.... don't look over here while males access female single sex spaces and cause retraumatisation and other harms on women and girls needing those spaces for healing ... look over here where we, who are morally superior, kind and on the right side of history, want you look and focus.

Domestic violence is unacceptable whether it affects women, trans women or men.

No one denies this.

However some people deny that females have unique needs. Needs that were becoming established and are now being reduced in the forced inclusion of males.

And we have a mantra of 'most vulnerable and marginalised' being repeated and used in Scottish parliament to push through measures that negatively effect women and care after violence is just one of those areas affected.

And we are again being told that we are wrong to point this out and to fight for the needs of women and girls, for females. And one poster even considers our pointing it out to be the same as xenophobia, racism and extreme capitalism. .... It really is quite enlightening when you see it in action.

The silencing of women.

Pointing to trans individuals as the culprits is a bit

Hang on a minute.

The reason that so many places are forced to take in males as well as females [or lose their funding] is due to the behind the scenes work of Stonewall representing trans individuals. Places that were created by women for women to protect them from the behaviour of men. To give them somewhere to be safe, away from male violence. The whole 'trans women are women' catchphrase is specifically meant to break the seal on who can and can't use these spaces.

And who was it that nailed a rat to a rape relief centre that refused to take males? Who campagned to defund them for years and years and years? That was most certainly a trans individual.

To pretend it isn't trans individuals that are behind all this is unbelieveably disengenuous.

Let alone comparing people who are concerned with the safety and dignity of women and girls being compared to actual monsters.

Needs that were becoming established and are now being reduced in the forced inclusion of males.

Sorry that should be

Needs that were becoming catered for adequately, and those facilities are now being reduced in the forced inclusion of males.

@AlisonDonut

Pointing to trans individuals as the culprits is a bit

Hang on a minute.

The reason that so many places are forced to take in males as well as females [or lose their funding] is due to the behind the scenes work of Stonewall representing trans individuals. Places that were created by women for women to protect them from the behaviour of men. To give them somewhere to be safe, away from male violence. The whole 'trans women are women' catchphrase is specifically meant to break the seal on who can and can't use these spaces.

And who was it that nailed a rat to a rape relief centre that refused to take males? Who campagned to defund them for years and years and years? That was most certainly a trans individual.

To pretend it isn't trans individuals that are behind all this is unbelieveably disengenuous.

Let alone comparing people who are concerned with the safety and dignity of women and girls being compared to actual monsters.

if Thanos snipped his glove and gender dysphoria disappeared and being trans was no longer a thing, the situation for cis women would not materially improve. Rapes are not prosecuted, domestic violence not taken seriously, shelters too full, there are too few (female) nurses and doctors trained to support abuse victims, too little financial support to allow DV/GBV victims to escape and rebuild their lives. That would not change if there weren't any trans people.

if Thanos snipped his glove and gender dysphoria disappeared and being trans was no longer a thing, the situation for cis women would not materially improve. Rapes are not prosecuted, domestic violence not taken seriously, shelters too full, there are too few (female) nurses and doctors trained to support abuse victims, too little financial support to allow DV/GBV victims to escape and rebuild their lives. That would not change if there weren't any trans people.

Oh yes. Keep the trope coming Catherina.

This is the 'women would still be getting raped' argument.

Again, we see it constantly.

So, please do tell us, why would anyone want to make access to any female easier? Why would anyone want to make healing for any female harder to access and more painful or in anyway retraumatising? Why would anyone want to make seeking protection harder meaning that less women will seek the protection they need?

if Thanos snipped his glove and gender dysphoria disappeared and being trans was no longer a thing, the situation for cis women would not materially improve. Rapes are not prosecuted, domestic violence not taken seriously, shelters too full, there are too few (female) nurses and doctors trained to support abuse victims, too little financial support to allow DV/GBV victims to escape and rebuild their lives. That would not change if there weren't any trans people.

Oh the drama of it.

Don't call me a cis woman.

Women. They have children and that is what makes it so much harder to leave. You can't leave knowing that you'll be able to earn enough to run a household and fund childcare, but if you leave it til the children are old enough not to need childcare, then maybe they will refuse to come with you.

Transwomen are just responsible for themselves.

That would not change if there weren't any trans people.

Let's get back to focusing on the single sex provisions that are needed by females and the negative effects that the forced inclusion of males into those provisions. ie. transitioned males. So, they ARE being changed because of 'trans people'.

The squirrel has gone. I think we are onto looking up at the bats.