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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

GRA Reform - Scotland

151 replies

BuffysBigSister · 03/03/2022 09:27

www.parliament.scot/-/media/files/legislation/bills/s6-bills/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill/introduced/bill-as-introduced.pdf

Some light reading for those who are interested

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Thread gallery
7
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 07/03/2022 10:45

Kezia Dugdale

Nicola Sturgeon

Margaret Atwood

Gloria Steinem

That Deborah woman from the Guilty Feminist

In fact, all the female comedians

Engender

Fawcett

Guiding

Katharine Viner

Lynn Featherstone

The Vagina Museum

Royal College of Midwives

Ugh, I could go on...all these women who are fucking disappointments.

"there is a special place in hell..."

littlbrowndog · 07/03/2022 13:21

I like this

GRA Reform - Scotland
vesuvia · 07/03/2022 16:36

18-minute interview of Nicola Sturgeon, interviewed by Sarah Montague, on BBC Radio 4's "World at One" programme on 7 March 2022:

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0015471

The interview starts at 25mins 26secs, with the first 14 minutes about Ukraine. Then they discuss GRA reform in Scotland (and the tweets of JK Rowling) from 39mins 34secs onwards.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 07/03/2022 18:29

JKR seems to be really getting involved Grin

Multiple women’s groups have presented well-sourced evidence to @NicolaSturgeon’s government about the likely negative consequences of this legislation for women and girls, especially the most vulnerable. All has been ignored. If the legislation is passed 1/2

and those consequences ensue as a result, the @SNP govt can’t pretend it wasn’t warned. 2/2

Rhannion · 07/03/2022 18:36

I think JKR is rightly annoyed, like so many of us , by the comments made last week by Shona Robison.

Orgasmagorical · 07/03/2022 18:51

@vesuvia

18-minute interview of Nicola Sturgeon, interviewed by Sarah Montague, on BBC Radio 4's "World at One" programme on 7 March 2022:

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0015471

The interview starts at 25mins 26secs, with the first 14 minutes about Ukraine. Then they discuss GRA reform in Scotland (and the tweets of JK Rowling) from 39mins 34secs onwards.

The way she spoke to Sarah Montague reminded me so much of the way my abusive ex spoke Angry
Waitwhat23 · 07/03/2022 19:28

I interacted with Kezia some time ago in a professional capacity and she didn't come across either as someone particularly clued up generally. That interaction very much reminds me of the current situation as she was determinedly pushing one group's demands while ignoring the needs of another group. She doesn't inspire confidence.

OvaHere · 07/03/2022 19:30

Times are allowing comments on this one for now.

Nicola Sturgeon rejects JK Rowling claim of gender reform threat to vulnerable women from The Times

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ebeb90a8-9e35-11ec-b38e-10b333e9179b?shareToken=c2b2e4573cd25d74f96bfb9cd4cd9009

KittenKong · 07/03/2022 19:33

Haha yeas it’s not going wee so far for wee Nic…
“ Sturgeon proves she is not a female but a monster from outer space.”

ScarletTulips · 07/03/2022 20:37

I heard Nicola Sturgeon’s interview with Sarah Montague today.
NS is so incredibly verbose and full of her own self importance, I have to force myself to listen to her.
Any challenge is met with a tone of utter incredulity and irritability that anyone has dared to question her.
It’s so totally depressing.
Judging by that interview today, there isn’t even a chink of hope that NS will listen to any other opinion on this whether it comes from JKR, organised Women’s Groups or individual women like me.
That’s not to say I’m giving up though.

CharlieParley · 07/03/2022 21:14

it’s about making that process less traumatic and inhumane for trans people, one of the most stigmatised minorities in our society.

The process:

  1. Visit GP, get diagnosed with gender dysphoria
  1. Get second medical opinion (usually from a mental health specialist)

=> no transition required, just a name change. (If you can afford to go private, 1 and 2 are reportedly not difficult to achieve.)

  1. Collect two years' worth of utility bills, credit card bills or other things your bank would accept as proof of ID. Nothing with a photograph is necessary.
  1. Contact civil servant free of charge to get them to check the paperwork is in order.
  1. Submit paperwork via post
  1. Tribunal meets quarterly and rubberstamps all applications with complete paperwork. No one is asked to prove they have transitioned or how they present. 95% of applications are successful. Unsuccessful applicants can reapply as many times as they want at six month intervals.

The only possible step that could be meant by "traumatic" or "inhumane" are steps 1 and 2. And medical diagnoses can often be traumatic, but that's not a reason to remove that step.

Furthermore, the European Court of Human Rights profoundly disagreed in a judgement in 2017 that having to provide evidence of a medical diagnosis before being issued with a GRC violates the human rights of those who identify as trans.

The EHRC stated that all states have a responsibility to the whole of society and not just to one group and ruled that a medical diagnosis strikes the right balance between the interests of wider society and the interests of those who identify as trans.

It seems clear to me that our First Minister disagrees with the EHRC on the state's responsibility for all of society but that difference in opinion is not proof of her claims.

(Addendum: the most marginalised and stigmatised label is about homosexual transsexuals, who are the ones overrepresented among the homeless and poor. This group is well served by the current law, because they need medical care (at the very least they require mental health support) and the requirement of a medical diagnosis for a GRC therefore is not an inhumane or traumatic experience for them but part of their pathway to a life where they are functioning better.

Misstache · 08/03/2022 06:15

Honestly, someone should start a fake AstroTurf account and write things like “Self ID is CARCERAL MISOGYNOIR that particularly harms BLACK TRANS WOMEN by privileging white trans women weaponizing performing cis femininity over BLACK TRANS WOMEN who will NEVER be accepted as who we define ourselves. Self definition is a PRIVILEGED WESTERN CONCEPT that suggests everyone equally gets to have a self or use language to define within the language binary that ignores BIPOC traditions of autonomy by ERASING DECOLONIAL HISTORIES. DO BETTER SCOTLAND” or something like that. Sure, it makes no sense, but I bet that would get listened to more than women talking about boring things like rape crisis centres.

Lovelyricepudding · 08/03/2022 08:02

Meanwhile in order to get child disability payment you have to fill in a 62 page form detailing how much support you need with going to the toilet, do you have continence accidents? are you able to adequately clean yourself? can you put your own socks on? can you brush your teeth? How often do you fall over? Are you able to hold a two way conversation? Do you need someone to cut up your food? Feed you?

And you need to supply evidence to back this up.

BuffysBigSister · 08/03/2022 08:03

If you're in Scotland, might be worth buying an actual copy of the Daily Record today. I believe the women behind the Women Voting With Their Feet campaign have an ad for International Women's Day. It's not my paper of choice but I will buy a copy to show my support.

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KittenKong · 08/03/2022 08:09

I saw it on twitter. Quotes from women - 1st one of JKR!

There will be much spitting up of Coco pops over the breakfast tables across the nation.

BuffysBigSister · 08/03/2022 08:11

womenvotingwithourfeet.wordpress.com/2022/03/08/wonderful-women/

And here's the blog that goes with the ad in the newspaper

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Mistressiggi · 08/03/2022 11:52

I've bought the paper. If I didn't know what it was about, the ad wouldn't really help me. The link would, so hopefully people will use the qr code.

BettyFilous · 08/03/2022 12:06

Can anyone post a link to the image/ad printed in the Daily Record? Searching Twitter in non-registered lurker mode is throwing up some odd matches. Hmm

BuffysBigSister · 08/03/2022 14:47

twitter.com/LaMarquiseDeMe3

Not the best view but all I can find at the minute

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BettyFilous · 08/03/2022 18:42

Thanks Buffy.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 08/03/2022 18:45

@Misstache

Honestly, someone should start a fake AstroTurf account and write things like “Self ID is CARCERAL MISOGYNOIR that particularly harms BLACK TRANS WOMEN by privileging white trans women weaponizing performing cis femininity over BLACK TRANS WOMEN who will NEVER be accepted as who we define ourselves. Self definition is a PRIVILEGED WESTERN CONCEPT that suggests everyone equally gets to have a self or use language to define within the language binary that ignores BIPOC traditions of autonomy by ERASING DECOLONIAL HISTORIES. DO BETTER SCOTLAND” or something like that. Sure, it makes no sense, but I bet that would get listened to more than women talking about boring things like rape crisis centres.
You're suggesting a GC version of Titania McGrath if such a concept can be entertained without ripping the space-time continuum or such?
candycane222 · 08/03/2022 20:41

Nicola Sturgeon issues apology for ‘historical injustice’ of witch hunts

Not wishing to derail the thread but satire is truly dead, is it not?
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/08/nicola-sturgeon-issues-apology-for-historical-injustice-of-witch-hunts?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

KittenKong · 08/03/2022 20:44

She can just get lost then can’t she? She’s be flipping Goody Sturgeon pointing the finger at very other woman on the village and screaming ‘witch! She cursed my cattle and gave my husband boils!’

Orgasmagorical · 09/03/2022 08:55

With her daily mail sad face apologising for other people's acts while behaving in the same way Hmm

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 09/03/2022 10:48

"Goody Sturgeon" conjured an image of Bill Oddie in my mind.