GRA Reform - Scotland

[BuffysBigSister]

www.parliament.scot/-/media/files/legislation/bills/s6-bills/gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill/introduced/bill-as-introduced.pdf

Some light reading for those who are interested

@Terfydactyl

Have you tried looking in the wine cellar

Has anyone asked the dog that ate the Welsh thingumybob?
Christ as soon as I press post I'll remember wtf it was the Welsh thingumy is called

Equality Impact Assessment 😄

Yeah that one Betty, sheesh the menopause is a memory killer

@CharlieParley
You asked what DoubleTweenQueen had meant by saying:
“Also, a GRC gives legal 'gender', which will mean 'sex', obviously, so sex-based provision sorted nicely.”

I think they may be referring to that ‘legal’ fallacy that a man is a woman/ a woman is a man which is conferred by a GRC.

But in that case, I think obviously ‘sex’ based provision for pregnancy could go wrong.

I think there was a case like that mentioned recently. A baby was born dead because the doctors initially thought they were dealing with an overweight man rather than a pregnant women with a problem.

[quote ScrollingLeaves]@CharlieParley
You asked what DoubleTweenQueen had meant by saying:
“Also, a GRC gives legal 'gender', which will mean 'sex', obviously, so sex-based provision sorted nicely.”

I think they may be referring to that ‘legal’ fallacy that a man is a woman/ a woman is a man which is conferred by a GRC.

But in that case, I think obviously ‘sex’ based provision for pregnancy could go wrong.

I think there was a case like that mentioned recently. A baby was born dead because the doctors initially thought they were dealing with an overweight man rather than a pregnant women with a problem.[/quote]
YEs, that was in the States, @ScrollingLeaves. And the trans man told them that they were trans, but did not say "I am female" and so the nurse didn't quite pick up that they should test for pregnancy as would be routine for a female with abdominal pain. And by the time they realised it was too late for the infant. Awful.

[quote DoubleTweenQueen]@CharlieParley It was a sarcastic take on an overall view of the ridiculous situation developing. [/quote]
Oops, I completely missed that. I honestly can't tell sometimes if it's in earnest or not. Thanks for pointing it out though, so I can stop trying to make sense of it.

@CharlieParley No problem - I'm sorry if I caused you any distress x
It is mad; I am gradually losing my mind as well as my DD to the madness, so not surprising if I don't make much sense sometimes.

Several articles in the Sunday Times today, comments currently open.

Self-ID law ‘not supported by all trans people’ says campaigner:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fecc7d22-9ccd-11ec-a6a5-32c563cf34cb?shareToken=9e90de88f3b9f8b542859b80a1a46a9a

Irish self-ID gender laws went ‘under the radar’:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c2d342ce-9cd7-11ec-a6a5-32c563cf34cb?shareToken=23ad838d8110fa178b5a4192d7cf7ef5

And Gillian Bowditch comment:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a58a9138-9cb2-11ec-a6a5-32c563cf34cb?shareToken=cf59b95319227fae2bb6931578c17b82

Thanks Igneococcus, I go straight to the Scotland section for these now!

Thanks for the share token. Wonderful opinion writing in the Times once again.

Thanks for share 👏

Thanks for share tokens

I see the times have a poll about whether 16 is old enough to change gender - upper 90s say no.

Please buy the Daily Record on Tuesday if you can, there is a advert about international women’s day from For Women Scotland.

More articles today, comments open at the moment:

Self-ID law will harm the most vulnerable women, says JK Rowling:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/17233454-9d9d-11ec-b38e-10b333e9179b?shareToken=735ccecf7ec5f1c262fd3841fd2c642d

Build bridges in gender row, says Labour’s Wes Streeting:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a1e1f502-9d9e-11ec-b38e-10b333e9179b?shareToken=b7eacc739b9ffb960fda844b157cc91e

Gender law will change lives for the better says Kezia Dugdale:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0e6a7734-9d9b-11ec-a33b-e5ebed659a52?shareToken=5f6a66029605b10dbb64e80b4bd42207

Kezia Dugdale says:
I have tried so hard to listen and to understand why they stand against this bill and I am afraid I just don’t get it.

Try harder, Kezia. I'm sure you'll get there in the end.

Although what she says in that article suggests such ignorance of the issue that I don't believe she's tried to understand at all.

"It takes a system only used by a marginalised and vulnerable group and makes it easier" (from Kezia Dugdale's article)
Isn't that the problem (or one of them),it makes the "system" so easy that it will not only be used by the marginalised and vulnerable any more. And once it's accepted that any male you see may actually be legally female, they won't even need to go through the process to find all doors open to them.

It is a simplified process but it is still a significant one. It cannot be done on a whim, as those seeking to change their gender identity must do so with a statutory declaration, an act as serious as signing an affidavit or telling the truth in court.

Failure to do that would constitute a crime. A false declaration could lead to up to two years in prison.

Kezia (like the Scottish government) fails to explain how a man can 'live as a woman', which is what the declaration will state he intends to do. Nor how anyone could prove that he has made a false declaration that he is doing and intends to continue to do this indefinable thing.

So the criminal penalty for a false declaration could never be used.

If Kezia is really finding it hard to grasp the basics here - then why is she in her position? That’s like me being on the board of a nuclear facility.

And now they turned comments off. I really appreciate what the Times has done so far but right at the time when this is going through the Scottish parliament they shut us up on their platform. Why?

And once it's accepted that any male you see may actually be legally female, they won't even need to go through the process to find all doors open to them.

This is the problem. It's not actually about who is legally "a woman", it's about the fact that no woman or girl can raise the alarm when a man is in a supposedly single sex space for women.

The GRA act needs repealing, so that people get used to the idea that being a woman is not a performance. All men, no matter how they present, should be welcomed into men's spaces.

@OldCrone

Kezia Dugdale says: I have tried so hard to listen and to understand why they stand against this bill and I am afraid I just don’t get it.

Try harder, Kezia. I'm sure you'll get there in the end.

Although what she says in that article suggests such ignorance of the issue that I don't believe she's tried to understand at all.

What's that saying about not understanding something if your job depends on not understanding it....?

Or telling porkies. Not very bright or a fibber.

Oh my Kezia. If you don’t understand it’s perhaps better to do a little more reading, talking and listening and not only to those who tell you what you want to hear.

Don’t think kezia will ever get there. Her fingers in ears singing lalala

Wes Streeting, ‘If we start from a point of good faith and try and work through in a spirit of compromise and building consensus, we will land where I think most people in this country are, which is wanting to see trans people live with freedom, dignity, safety and respect and within a legal framework that doesn’t make other people feel like their rights are somehow being compromised or endangered.”

How about women getting the chance to live their lives with freedom, dignity, safety and respect? Isn’t that a radical idea?