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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

SNP Rebels (Yes, really) and More

41 replies

Igneococcus · 27/02/2022 07:24

According to the Times Scotland about 10 SNP MSPs are planning to break ranks and oppose the proposed reforms:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/907c2d94-975b-11ec-addf-533e9597e348?shareToken=2592313969a6086296402e96ebaceeed

Alex Massie Comment here:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c5c6a40c-9751-11ec-addf-533e9597e348?shareToken=62ff22b3122125ef518043c1283f0f99

And Ros Whyte who helped establish Scotland's first rape crisis centre says "Rape charity ‘betrays women’ in Scotland":

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c650278c-975a-11ec-addf-533e9597e348?shareToken=d0a820bf5955634b95f53684ce54b4f2

Every single one has comments turned off.

OP posts:
McDuffy · 27/02/2022 07:36

Just saw these! 13 per cent support for intact males in female spaces, and they're still ploughing ahead Sad

highame · 27/02/2022 07:44

Lurking behind much of this, I think, is a question many women (in particular) worry about: is being a woman simply a question of preference or performance? If anyone can become a woman simply by affirming their newfound femaleness, what is left of womanhood? That is not a question I imagine many of our MSPs would like to be asked and one very few would be capable of answering. Loved this

The fact that comments have been turned off is neither here not there, this is a newspaper, not twitter. There are three articles in the Sunday Times today and all are clearly GC, THREE articles! That's truly amazing. Two years ago there would have been one per month, at best.

334bu · 27/02/2022 07:48

Thank you for the share tokens.

Igneococcus · 27/02/2022 07:51

I would like to know why they decided to turn off comments on these articles and who made this decision. Years ago, when there were very few articles, a lot of information was found in the comments.

OP posts:
MarciaDidia · 27/02/2022 08:21

Comments may be turned on later. They're quite often turned off overnight.

Kangaruby · 27/02/2022 09:28

Comments are turned off lots in the Times for articles concerning women's rights especially in the past few weeks. It is irritating but the Times do give a lot of coverage for the GC position and for that I am grateful and will continue to pay my subscription

Whatsnewpussyhat · 27/02/2022 09:38

@McDuffy

Just saw these! 13 per cent support for intact males in female spaces, and they're still ploughing ahead Sad
Imagine legally redefining the female sex class to include men without any public vote and still go ahead with self ID bullshit knowing that the majority think gender identity ideology is utter batshit and dangerous to females.
Whereareyourshoes · 27/02/2022 10:12

Thank you for sharing the links. What a backwards women-hating little country we have become. The SNP have achieved nothing in all their years of power other than increasing division and blaming Westminster for all their failures. Glad there are some within the SNP willing to stand up to the toxic SNP/Green leadership. And as for the Lib Dems - why do they campaign so hard to make it easier for male people to gain access to where women and children are vulnerable?

Eyesofdisarray · 27/02/2022 10:13

Who are those 13% I wonder???? And why???

DomesticatedZombie · 27/02/2022 10:21

A glimmer. But I'm afraid 10 MPs is just not enough.

most nationalists in the parliament back the legislation and want it passed quickly

The SNPs culture, from what I can see, fosters unquestioning allegiance to party policy. I believe it's not allowed to question or criticise party policy, in fact?

www.heraldscotland.com/news/13207900.snp-clampdown-mps-fail-toe-party-line/

FlibbertyGiblets · 27/02/2022 10:27

Thank you Iggy.

DomesticatedZombie · 27/02/2022 10:34

Herald article, largely a retelling of the ST article, but with comments open.

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19955525.nicola-sturgeon-facing-revolt-gender-bill-rebels-seek-free-vote/

ChopinBoard · 27/02/2022 11:34

Thanks for sharing op.

This from Alex Massie irked me:

'It is possible to accept that trans women are a sort of woman — in identity terms anyway — without accepting they are women exactly the same as any other women.'

No, Alex, I'm afraid it isn't. Lots of us used to pretend it was the case but this pretence is one of the reasons we've ended up in this dreadful mess.
So, no, Alex. No man can ever be any kind of woman. It's a hard no. A firm line. No thank you.

KimikosNightmare · 27/02/2022 11:45

although most nationalists in the parliament back the legislation and want it passed quickly

The Nat MSPs and MPs do what they're told. The separatists who voted them in don't care as long as they keep peddling"freedom".

KimikosNightmare · 27/02/2022 11:49

The SNPs culture, from what I can see, fosters unquestioning allegiance to party policy. I believe it's not allowed to question or criticise party policy, in fact?

Correct. All part of the separatist propaganda- just the same as peddling the lie that if you don't support separatism you don't care about Scotland.

As it happens gender reform bothers me far less than the truly deranged policy of separatism. It's quite amusing actually seeing posters on here who supported separatism in the past now hand wringing about how deranged and totalitarian the SNP is.

DomesticatedZombie · 27/02/2022 14:02

www.holyrood.com/editors-column/view,editors-column-the-right-to-be

Comment from Mandy Rhodes in Holyrood magazine. Hope the link works ...

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 27/02/2022 14:11

@DomesticatedZombie

www.holyrood.com/editors-column/view,editors-column-the-right-to-be

Comment from Mandy Rhodes in Holyrood magazine. Hope the link works ...

Wow! That column is obviously written from the heart. I really hope some MSPs read that, and at least think about what they are supporting.
334bu · 27/02/2022 17:58

Thanks for link.

janeseymour78 · 27/02/2022 18:13

I have an idea of who a few of them will be.

I've voted SNP a few times but reckon I'll spoil my ballot this year if this goes ahead.

howonearthdidwegethere · 27/02/2022 18:43

[quote DomesticatedZombie]A glimmer. But I'm afraid 10 MPs is just not enough.

most nationalists in the parliament back the legislation and want it passed quickly

The SNPs culture, from what I can see, fosters unquestioning allegiance to party policy. I believe it's not allowed to question or criticise party policy, in fact?

www.heraldscotland.com/news/13207900.snp-clampdown-mps-fail-toe-party-line/[/quote]
Yes, 10 SNP rebels is hopeless. Most Labour MSPs will support. Lib Dems and Greens are a bunch of utter loons and will support. The parliamentary process is an absolute waste of time.

Women in Scotland are f*cked, quite frankly.

DomesticatedZombie · 27/02/2022 19:23

Actually, if that's just out of MPs rather than MSPs or both combined, then it's a fairly healthy chunk (45 SNP MPs).

But this crap legislation will still be pushed through.

TensionWheelsCooIHeels · 27/02/2022 19:40

"most nationalists in the parliament back the legislation and want it passed quickly"

This is quite a shocking admission when you consider the glaring holes in what they are doing, along with the fact the work that should have been done to properly consider the justified concerns raised just hasn't been done. MSPs who support this are effectively saying they have no intention of scrutinising the bill, as is their responsibility, and instead want to force it through without the proper scrutiny.

I've said it elsewhere but the number of careerist invertebrates who occupy seats in the Scottish Parliament is seriously depressing. It's their actual jobs to scrutinise legislation, to hear all views & concerns & to question the many issues & unintended consequences of this bill.

Their cowardice over this is staggering. Joan McAlpine had ovaries of steel, & paid the price for her vocal challenges to this. It's notable that since we lost Johann Lamont, Elaine Smith, Andy Wightman, Jenny Marra & Joan McAlpine, there's been no one vocal speaking about this subject. That's a pretty chilling state of affairs. Kate Forbes is the only one who has spoken on this that I'm aware of. But not to the extent it's had any impact.

10 rebel SNP MSPs isn't enough on numbers. And there's too many MSPs in general who have failed their constituents in declaring their desire just to get it passed, without any intention of scrutinising what this bill will do.

DomesticatedZombie · 27/02/2022 19:45

The SNP seems to me to be largely rotten - from the head, as they say. One person running the show and a raft of yes-men (and women) nodding along.

I completely agree that they are failing their constituents and the people of Scotland. But they seem to have a taste for forcing through unpopular, unworkable legislation.

Letsnotdothisplease · 27/02/2022 19:47

@DomesticatedZombie

Actually, if that's just out of MPs rather than MSPs or both combined, then it's a fairly healthy chunk (45 SNP MPs).

But this crap legislation will still be pushed through.

This is not a vote in the UK Parliament. It’s the Scottish Parliament. 10 out of 64 SNP MSPs will be cancelled out by the Labour MSPs who will support plus the Lib Dems.
DomesticatedZombie · 27/02/2022 19:49

Yes, I'm confusing myself, here! For some reason thought I'd read MPs.

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