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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Does anyone else cringe at the word "diversity"?

281 replies

SunniDelite · 26/02/2022 12:26

I had this email from someone on Crowdfunder...
"I am raising funds for the Lenny Henry Centre for Media Diversity at Birmingham City University.
In the last year, the centre has revealed the racism and prejudice actors face when they go auditions and, for the first time, exposed the lack of gender diversity of sound recordists. We're now building programmes to address this problem. So far, our research has highlighted specific problems for disabled people working in the industry and created more job opportunities for Black people behind the camera. Additionally, we are working with major broadcasters to change how they report on race, gender and disability."
I have no problem with the race and disability part, but what on earth does "lack of gender diversity of sound recordists" mean? That there aren't enough women? or that there aren't enough blue-hairs who can't decide what they are? or there aren't enough transwomen?
It's come to a point where I'm suspicious that any organisation that mentions diversity is a TRA, even if they're talking about hedgehog populations! :)

OP posts:
Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 16:48

@Ereshkigalangcleg

The "labels" of "man" and "woman" literally only exist due to the existence of biological sex.
They are not, however, inherent to biological sex. They were socially constructed around it.
Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 16:54

@SamphiretheStickerist
“Well, not being so self absorbed that I think I can force the world to change its understanding of biological science”

The labels of "man" and "woman" are not inherently dictated by biological science, and biological science is what allows trans people to transition.

Biological science also shows that sex is anything but binary. Trans women on HRT grow breasts and have an increased risk of breast cancer. That's not the case for cis men.

“so self absorbed that I think I can force the world (...) to take well understood words and paste on a new meaning”

Like how the definition of marriage was changed to no longer mean "union between a man and a woman"? Get over it and move on.

SamphiretheStickerist · 28/02/2022 16:55

Who asked you about "personalities"?

That's my paraphrasing those multiple genders, the things some people identify as.

Having grown up with gender bending being my youthful norm I am fully aware that anyone can be whoever the fuck they want to be, with no recourse to social mores, labels etc. Again, with the only proviso of 'do no harm'

That last is something that is lacking these days. Many women and girls have already been harmed by gender ideology.

What people oppose about your ideology is your persistence in imposing unwanted labels and strict segregation.

You do know that is bunkum, don't you? Quite the opposite is true. The only segregation a GC woman would insist upon would be required for the safety of a class of people... you know, commonly called safeguarding. It's that 'do no harm' thing again.

And frankly, you're wrong about sex being binary, but you're clearly not willing to listen to anything that may contradict your rigid
worldview.

Ah! But some of us are actually quite knowledgeable about human biology and can tell you that in this you are indisputably misinformed. It's complex, but it boils down to there are two sexes and a miscoding in the genes of an individual do not change that.

And the people you may be about to use as proof of your assertion have asked, across many media channels, as individuals and organisations, not to be used in that manner. They too ask that you do no harm!

SamphiretheStickerist · 28/02/2022 16:59

[quote Lekisa658]@SamphiretheStickerist
“Well, not being so self absorbed that I think I can force the world to change its understanding of biological science”

The labels of "man" and "woman" are not inherently dictated by biological science, and biological science is what allows trans people to transition.

Biological science also shows that sex is anything but binary. Trans women on HRT grow breasts and have an increased risk of breast cancer. That's not the case for cis men.

“so self absorbed that I think I can force the world (...) to take well understood words and paste on a new meaning”

Like how the definition of marriage was changed to no longer mean "union between a man and a woman"? Get over it and move on.[/quote]
So much to dissect.

Let's just start with secondary sexual characteristics, like breasts, do not mean an individual has changed sex.

And are you trying to assert that if a group of men take a specific drug only those who wanted to transition would grow breasts ?

That the bodies of gay and straight men would somehow resist the effects of the drug?

That really is magical thinking!

DomesticatedZombie · 28/02/2022 16:59

The labels of "man" and "woman" are not inherently dictated by biological science, and biological science is what allows trans people to transition.

Don't be silly. Forget about 'labels' - liberate yourself!

Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 17:03

@SamphiretheStickerist
“As for that last bit about segregation. Just sod off. That's disingenuous claptrap that absolutely ignores safeguarding, statistics around violence and everyone's lived experiences.

Who are you trying to support with that? Who do you think benefits from it? And how?”

Again, how is this different from the arguments used against gay and black people, aside from “they weren't that one group I dislike, I'm discriminating based on a different characteristic”.

Gay and black people were also being excluded in the name of "safeguarding", painted as dangerous sexual predators who needed to be kept separate for the sake of the children.

I oppose trans exclusion because discriminating against people based on how they were born is wrong.

Lesserspottedmama · 28/02/2022 17:04

Just boring buzzword trending jargon waffle nonsense for the most part.

SunniDelite · 28/02/2022 17:04

Lekisa, is your Mum a woman? If not, where did you come from?...... How would your Mum feel about using mixed "gender" toilets?.... How would you feel about her receiving intimate care from a male-bodied person when she is old? How would she feel? Is it OK to allow an intact male to shower alongside a 12-year-old girl? Just a few questions that we would like answers to.....

OP posts:
Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 17:05

@DomesticatedZombie

The labels of "man" and "woman" are not inherently dictated by biological science, and biological science is what allows trans people to transition.

Don't be silly. Forget about 'labels' - liberate yourself!

Then you quit imposing the labels of "man" and "woman" on people who do not wish to be referred to that way, and quit imposing involuntary segregation.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/02/2022 17:06

Trans women on HRT grow breasts and have an increased risk of breast cancer. That's not the case for cis men.

Try "cis men" who have to take certain drugs for heart problems. It's the drugs, not the "gender".

Would "trans women" grow breasts and be at increased risk of breast cancer if they didn't take cross sex hormones? If not, why is that?

Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 17:07

@SunniDelite
“Is it OK to allow an intact male to shower alongside a 12-year-old girl?”

Is it okay for an adult naked woman to shower alongside a 12-year-old girl?
I'm asking if the sex of the adult is your only issue with that scenario.

Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 17:08

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Trans women on HRT grow breasts and have an increased risk of breast cancer. That's not the case for cis men.

Try "cis men" who have to take certain drugs for heart problems. It's the drugs, not the "gender".

Would "trans women" grow breasts and be at increased risk of breast cancer if they didn't take cross sex hormones? If not, why is that?

That point wasn't about gender, but about sex not being binary.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/02/2022 17:08

That the bodies of gay and straight men would somehow resist the effects of the drug?

Evidence from men who aren't transgender can demonstrate that Lekisa would be wrong if they did.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/02/2022 17:09

That point wasn't about gender, but about sex not being binary.

Sex is binary though.

SunniDelite · 28/02/2022 17:10

Yes, yes it is. And is your mother a woman? You didn't answer that. Perhaps you were grown in a petrie dish....

OP posts:
Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 17:11

@Ereshkigalangcleg

That point wasn't about gender, but about sex not being binary.

Sex is binary though.

Even though the characteristics that make up one's sex have literally been altered with the use of hormones?

Doesn't strike me as particularly binary.

MajorCarolDanvers · 28/02/2022 17:12

Diversity means that you include and involve people from a different range of genders, sexual orientations, races, socio-economic backgrounds, disabilities etc.

Its a good thing not a bad thing.

If you think its a bad thing then you are the problem.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/02/2022 17:12

Sex is based on gametes. I can understand how you might be confused if you think it's about breasts/lack of breasts.

Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 17:12

@SunniDelite

Yes, yes it is. And is your mother a woman? You didn't answer that. Perhaps you were grown in a petrie dish....
Okay, this is gross and you're honestly in no position to talk about safeguarding.

Looks like you're fine with sexual predators so long as they only prey on those of the same sex.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/02/2022 17:13

Does a man's penis retract and he grow a vagina when he takes oestrogen, yes or no?

Lekisa658 · 28/02/2022 17:13

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Sex is based on gametes. I can understand how you might be confused if you think it's about breasts/lack of breasts.
So, a woman without an uterus isn't female?
Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/02/2022 17:15

Males commit 98% of sex crimes, so the risk is very much less, and single sex communal spaces are common. Personally I prefer more privacy too, but I'd like communal space much less with men in it.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 28/02/2022 17:20

So, a woman without an uterus isn't female?

A woman (ie an adult female human) without a uterus is as female as any other woman, she has no uterus because of a medical or surgical reason, these women are not a separate sex class. And you are the "logic" expert Grin

Female gametes are large gametes. Many women and girls don't produce ova, some of us never do. Most of us do at some point but no one does 100% of the time. We are still members of the reproductive class of humans who are the ones who produce large gametes, whether or not we do so.

SunniDelite · 28/02/2022 17:21

Apparently it's gross to ask if Lekisa's Mum is a woman....

OP posts:
CompleteGinasaur · 28/02/2022 17:23

Good Lord. I've only been lurking/occasionally posting on Mumsnet for about 8 months, but even in that short time I've come to appreciate the patience with which the veterans of this site refute the same repetitious bunkum over and over again. I don't know how you do it, women, I really don't.

And good luck,Lekisa658, I hope you're bright enough to appreciate the skilled way in which your arse is about to be handed to you.

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