Don’t bother applying for a job if you think people can’t change sex, NHS trust tells health official

[MidCenturyClegs]

uk.news.yahoo.com/don-t-bother-applying-job-162233187.html

The wonderful Kate Grimes expressed interest in a non-exec position at the Tavi this year and was told to not waste her time as she holds gender critical beliefs. Peter Daly has been employed. Wow!

You've pretty much talked yourself out of believing in anything, Lekisa except your practically religious fervour that trans women are women, with no reasoned argument as to why other people should accept that on their or your say so.

The reason you are so persistent in labeling trans women as "men" is because you want to weaponize those gender stereotypes against them ("perverted paraphilic predatory males" etc.) to advocate for their exclusion.

Stereotypes? It's reality.

Trans people need single-sex spaces just as much as anyone else - as everywhere, it's overwhelmingly the males who sexually assault the females among the trans community - so transmen and female non-binaries have to be protected from transwomen and male non-binaries...

This is demonstrably true. There are countless "transwomen" in prison for sexual offences. It's not "transmen" committing these offenses.

If this wasn't true, then I would actually tend to go along with the trans stuff, but claims of "trans" or "non binary" status just throw people's actual sex, and sex-typical behaviour, into sharp relief.

Trans people need single-sex spaces just as much as anyone else - as everywhere, it's overwhelmingly the males who sexually assault the females among the trans community - so transmen and female non-binaries have to be protected from transwomen and male non-binaries...

Absolutely. That's why FTM trans people don't tend to be put into male prison.

“Stereotypes? It's reality.”

Every bigot says this about the stereotypes they believe to be true.

Why is it that male people commit 98% of sex crime, Lekisa?

Every bigot says this about the stereotypes they believe to be true.

Feel free to argue the actual point, any time.

Do you think it is a stereotype one sex gets pregnant? Do you think it a stereotype that 98% of sexual assaults are carried out by men and 88% of victims are female? Do you think it a stereotype that men have different shaped pelvis, larger hearts and lung capacity, larger hands, more muscle development and muscle strength and this gives them advantage in sport? Do you think it is a stereotype that women display different symptoms of heart attacks?

@Lekisa658

As long as you ars forcing the labels of "man" and "woman" on people against their will, you are (b). Period.

You are the one doing the forcing here.

You are forcing somebody into the label that I now cannot identify out of. Your identity HAS to affect my identity, by definition. Your set of characteristics for what a woman is could be COMPLETELY different from mine - just like your set of characteristics of what makes someone nice or funny or friendly. If I don’t agree to the same set of characteristics, do I get the option to define myself? No apparently I don’t.

The key differences is that anorectic patients do not want to be fat, people haunted by auditory hallucinations do not want to experience such.

Whereas you are trying to deny people the things they want, because trans people's existence is uncomfortable to you.

Oh. Hang on?

So, we have now come to some honesty?

Could you please clarify this?

Are trans people's gender's innate? Or what they want?

And is gender dysphoria NOT a debilitating health issue that deserves and needs careful and individual care plans? Or is it just giving someone what they 'want' not actually what they need, including not identifying whether that person is dysphoric or not?

And are you a spokesperson for all trans people? Should we ignore those people with gender dysphoria that is so debilitating that they tell us that they don't want to have gender dysphoria?

And by the way, if someone does not have gender dysphoria, please tell us again why they should then have state funded treatments that are not available to others 'just because they want them'?

" stop forcing people into boxes they don't want to be in."

Nobody is forcing ANYONE to be in a box
NATURE did that for you.

Unfortunately it's a box that you can never get out of.

And I find it amusing that you talk about us "forcing" ideology onto people. That shows you have a great sense of humour!

[quote Lekisa658]@NecessaryScene
“As far as we can see, they're not being helped by being told they're women - the current crop of transwomen who (want to) believe they are women seem to be a lot more mentally vulnerable than the previous generation.

I believe the dysphoria is being amplified by them being told they're "women" and that anyone who says they're not hates them.”

Actually what is detrimental to their mental health is the existence of the anti-trans "Gender Critical" movement that aggressively campaigns for restricting their ability to medically and socially transition.

Your only actual issue with the trans-affirming approach is that it's uncomfortable to you, and everything else is just a dishonest play to try and advance your goal of getting "tr*nnies" out of your sight.

Dysphoria is amplified by you refusing to respect trans women as women. Simple as.[/quote]
Nobody wants to stop people who suffer from debilitating conditions from getting the medical help they need.

In the case of gender dysphoria the primary treatment should be help with their mental health. If anyone believes there is something wrong with their healthy body, they first need mental health support. Providing physical treatment first is equivalent to giving liposuction to an already underweight anorexic just because they are convinced they are overweight.

Why do you think it's uncomfortable for us? You have a very odd view of what we actually think, particularly with the use of the word 'tr**ies' which is not something people here would use.

This thread might help you to understand.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?pg=1

@RVN123

" stop forcing people into boxes they don't want to be in."

Nobody is forcing ANYONE to be in a box
NATURE did that for you.

Unfortunately it's a box that you can never get out of.

And I find it amusing that you talk about us "forcing" ideology onto people. That shows you have a great sense of humour!

"Nature" never forced the labels of "man" or "woman" on me. Never forced me to use specific "sex segregated" spaces.

Humans like yourself are doing that.

"If anyone believes there is something wrong with their healthy body, they first need mental health support."

You are extraordinarily ignorant. This isn't just about "believing something is wrong with a healthy body", this is about consciously wanting to change one's body to a form one would feel more comfortable with, and about authoritarians like yourself trying to deprive other people of agency and restricting their bodily autonomy.

Again, man and woman are not identity labels, like goth or mod or "non binary". They are the names for adults of the two sexes which exist. We won't be changing how we define ourselves on the say so of a few entitled people of either sex, or their friends.

“Again, man and woman are not identity labels”

They literally are. Whatever you believe these identity labels should be "based" on, doesn't change the fact they ade identity labels.

*are

authoritarians like yourself trying to deprive other people of agency and restricting their bodily autonomy.

This specific thread is about a children's NHS service. It's quite normal to restrict children's "bodily autonomy" for a number of reasons.

If an adult wants to modify their body with their own money, we're not going to stop them. This is about public funding of something perceived to be "treatment", and specifically that being given to children.

"Not paying for something someone wants" is not authoritarian.

"Nature" never forced the labels of "man" or "woman" on me. Never forced me to use specific "sex segregated" spaces.

Nah. "Nature" decides whether our bodies develop in the formation of a reproductive system based around producing one type of gamete. Whether we do that or not.

"Sex segregated spaces" are there because people who have one of the two different formations of the human body have specific requirements. These are based not only on biological functions, but on the safety aspect of those functions. And on the need for privacy.

Your continued and determined ignoring of the needs of females, on a feminist board, on a parenting forum called 'Mumsnet' is quite a thing of enlightenment though.

“We won't be changing how we define ourselves”

The problem isn't about how you define yourselves, the problem is that you insist that it's you have a "right" to define and restrict others.

They literally are. Whatever you believe these identity labels should be "based" on, doesn't change the fact they ade identity labels.

In your bubble maybe. But in the real world, people who have used these labels since they were formed have not agreed, and I doubt you will get the majority to agree. So, it will always be that a group of people decided that they would introduce new definitions over the top of everyone's dissent.

And strangely, those people tell everyone to be 'kind' and 'tolerant' while they are making these changes that others don't want.

Whatever you believe these identity labels should be "based" on

I don't believe they are identity labels 🤷‍♀️ they are descriptors of material reality.

The problem isn't about how you define yourselves, the problem is that you insist that it's you have a "right" to define and restrict others.

There is this thing called society, Lekisa, that has to work for everyone, and balance everyone's rights. Not just giving a few elect individuals what they "want", and everyone else just having to be support humans.

Lia Thomas's right to call himself a "woman" cannot be at the expense of the entirety of female sport. That is not balancing male rights with female rights remotely fairly.

The problem isn't about how you define yourselves, the problem is that you insist that it's you have a "right" to define and restrict others.

Oh, so you're going to respect women's rights not to call ourselves made up nonsense like "cis", then? And you won't have a problem when we lobby companies to tell them not to use it?

Can we have a "non trans" "non cis" identity label please? It's what we identify as. Don't call us "cis" unless we've explicitly asked you to, it's misgendering.

@Lekisa658

"If anyone believes there is something wrong with their healthy body, they first need mental health support."

You are extraordinarily ignorant. This isn't just about "believing something is wrong with a healthy body", this is about consciously wanting to change one's body to a form one would feel more comfortable with, and about authoritarians like yourself trying to deprive other people of agency and restricting their bodily autonomy.

I'm not stopping you doing anything you want to with your body. If you want cosmetic surgery of any sort you can go and get it (as long as you can pay for it, a surgeon is willing to do it and you are an adult).