Don’t bother applying for a job if you think people can’t change sex, NHS trust tells health official

[MidCenturyClegs]

uk.news.yahoo.com/don-t-bother-applying-job-162233187.html

The wonderful Kate Grimes expressed interest in a non-exec position at the Tavi this year and was told to not waste her time as she holds gender critical beliefs. Peter Daly has been employed. Wow!

The ToL have picked it up, too. Sunlight...

NHS trust tells gender-critical boss not to apply for senior role

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3955fe2a-959c-11ec-bcf4-9dde9b8243da?shareToken=1d07d23496b9a6e6a1d88dc2be26f11e

No comments allowed by the Times, AGAIN. Have they hired a new TRA moderator? I have never seen rude or abusive comments on this topic, just a tidal wave of support for the GC position. Is someone uncomfortable?

Baroness Nicholson applied and wasn’t given a first interview, despite government policy to removed barriers to disabled people saying she should be interviewed.

Apollo I have written to the Times to ask about No Comments. I do think this is more than TRA's moderating. I think they had problems going through all the comments before posting due to the amount that were abusive, discriminatory etc. They can't risk, otherwise they get sued and give they are members of IPSOS they have to review all on such a contentious issue.

They do recognised the feeling of Times readers and therefore still publish lots of articles that are clearly GC. I also assume journos are wanting comments rather than debate. I see that a few posters are getting in GC comments where they can on other articles

Wow. Just…wow.

Thanks for the link.

Forstater case springs to mind. Perhaps NHS thinks Tavi needs a TRA's whereas a moderate without fixed views might benefit the patients

@highame

Forstater case springs to mind. Perhaps NHS thinks Tavi needs a TRA's whereas a moderate without fixed views might benefit the patients

Poor Melanie from recruitment. Career hari kari.
Should also not that my original comment about Peter Daly having been employed is incorrect, my understanding is that he has just commented on this (he was the legal team behind Forstater right?).

This is interesting though. Because religious organisations are allowed in some circumstances to discriminate on grounds of belief, for example a church saying they will only employ a yourh worker who holds Christian beliefs. So I would say that the Tavi position is tenable, but only if they present their own gender views as belief rather than fact

I would have thought it should be utterly vital for anyone working for the Tavistock to understand that sex is immutable (in humans), and tailor their services within that reality.

Are they no longer a reality-based medical service at all?

@sharksarecool

This is interesting though. Because religious organisations are allowed in some circumstances to discriminate on grounds of belief, for example a church saying they will only employ a yourh worker who holds Christian beliefs. So I would say that the Tavi position is tenable, but only if they present their own gender views as belief rather than fact

But it's Christian and gender critical beliefs which are protected, whereas gender woo woo beliefs are not. So does that analogy work?

So I would say that the Tavi position is tenable, but only if they present their own gender views as belief rather than fact

Well, yes - it would be a reasonable position if the point of their organisation was to be a Church of Gender.

But they're supposed to be a medical service, part of the NHS, working with people who are confronting their desire to be the opposite sex when they cannot actually change that.

Insisting people deny reality relevant to their field of operation clearly does not serve their purpose in the way necessary for such discrimination to be permitted under the EA2010.

Best you can argue is that the "best treatment" for such individuals is for everyone involved, even tangentially, as overseers, to participate in the lie. I don't think that would stand up though - the person overseeing a role play has to know it's just a role play to run it effectively for its participants.

(I recommend the film Synecdoche, New York btw, which is on this theme - a playwright + stage director gets a bit too caught up in his own play.)

But if it is a belief-based organisation like a Church, rather than an evidence-based organisation, I think they'd be okay? They'd need to change their terms of operation though, and surely they would not be eligible for NHS funding?

MidCenturyClegs gender woo woo is a protected belief. Forstater case confirmed that: GC is protected as a lack of belief in gender woo woo.

@NecessaryScene

I would have thought it should be utterly vital for anyone working for the Tavistock to understand that sex is immutable (in humans), and tailor their services within that reality.

Are they no longer a reality-based medical service at all?

Absolutely. Though once again it seems to come down to a corruption of language. Are they believing people change sex or are they believing (like Scottish judges) that the meaning of 'sex' has changed and no longer applies to its original meaning but rather a new meaning which applies to belief. If it were the former then how could they treat their patients? Suddenly announce the process is complete so no more medication required, penis holderbe sure to take contraception in case you get pregnant?

Oh fabulous! Bring it on.

You'd think Gatsby Sanderson would know better than to ask people about their protected beliefs during interview. Are they going to start asking about religion and pregnancy? Ffs when will it sink in that people are allowed to believe that there are only 2 sexes and that you can't change sex?

Its absolutely ridiculous

Humans can’t change sex

This whole thing would be so much easier if we could…obvs

And i am happy to support the trans people i know and their families, I honestly believe that some people are happier presenting as the opposite sex etc

But I can’t believe humans can actually change sex and absolutely no one i know believes this is a fact either…even if they are completely onboard with TWAW

@sharksarecool

This is interesting though. Because religious organisations are allowed in some circumstances to discriminate on grounds of belief, for example a church saying they will only employ a yourh worker who holds Christian beliefs. So I would say that the Tavi position is tenable, but only if they present their own gender views as belief rather than fact

But the NHS is not a "belief" based organisation. It should be run on an evidence based practice. So your belief on whether or not sex is immutable or there are 100 genders are irrelevant here. Same as you would not ask a applicant if they were a catholic or atheist.

Very helpful from both Kate Grimes and Lucy Bannerman in publicising it. Hard as it feels at the moment this will help progress change at the Tavistock.

@OneEpisode

Baroness Nicholson applied and wasn’t given a first interview, despite government policy to removed barriers to disabled people saying she should be interviewed.

@OneEpisode Can I check, are you saying she applied for the chair role? Shortlisting and Interviews haven’t taken place yet. Sorry if you don’t know more, but if you do, would be helpful to know.

'your view on sex being immutable is not a view point that the trust would wish any of their non-executives to hold'

What's utterly amazing is that anyone would commit this kind of view to writing.

I wonder if they'd discount people who hold certain religious beliefs, equally? And think that was perfectly legitimate and okay. Amazing.

Being Gender Critical is not the same as denying the existence of gender dysphoria which is the actual diagnosis. It is crucial that treatment and diagnosis is done objectively. A fixed belief that sex is mutable or that a single outcome or treatment pathway is preferable should never be a selection criteria for any post. The Tavi is not fit for purpose.

Did I say I was amazed?

I'm amazed.

'a specialist health and life sciences senior executive leadership consultant at GatenbySanderson.

Trained as a midwife, followed by an academic career at UCL coupled with 15 years’ experience in senior level executive search in life sciences and healthcare leaves me uniquely placed to offer insights across all senior leadership functions in these sectors.

Having worked within the NHS Leadership Academy supporting board appointments, national level talent management and leadership development activity in the NHS, has given me a significant level of direct NHS knowledge, networks and relationships with key executives.

I am an experienced career coach working with senior leaders across the NHS.

Melanie holds a Masters in Neuroscience from the Institute of Psychiatry and a PhD in Metabolic Biochemistry and Genetics from University College, London.'

All that experience and those quals, and you can't handle the idea that sex is immutable? Amazing.

That means they wouldn't employ Prof. Sir Robert Winston either.

Sorry Lord Robert Winston.