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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men taking advantage.

104 replies

Bella3456 · 22/02/2022 21:50

So this is a random one. As a woman I know to be very careful and weary of strange men. But today honestly I'm baffled. Where is the line between someone being creepy and someone just being friendly? I'm on holiday eith my 6 year old in butlins skegness (if anyone else is im the stressed one in a bright pink coat LOL) and I went to get some food at the food court (son infront of me) and the chef was extremely chatty. Naturally I just thought the had to chat to staff as part of working at butlins but he was asking me loads of questions (infront of many other customers) but again I assumed maybe butlins policy for staff to be friendly. He then laughed and said 'left he husband at home then!' And because I assumed he was safe i said no husband for me single Pringle (assuming he was being chatty because he was supposed to be) suddenly infront of everyone he said 'give me your nunber then' now honestly in evry part of my life I always always say to men I have a partner at home. I think because I felt safe and secure I just had a laugh and was accidentally honest. This was onfront of everyone and I didn't want to embarrassed him so I said 'you give me yours' I felt like if I rejected his request he would have felt embarrassed. Also please on this post be kind. I do not like making other people feel awkward or embarrassed. That's why I asked to take his number. He gave it me of course I haven't text. I reall feel like he tricked me by being 'overly friendly' and because it was at butlins I really did assume it was policy to be over friendly which is why I basically accidentally told the truth. How could I have been more firm? I want to add i do not feel threatened or harrased. But I do feel tricked into an awkward situation because he did it infront of EVERYONE. Ive just never experience anything like this is a bloody family resort.

OP posts:
timeisnotaline · 23/02/2022 01:17

@Kimilybob

Just to clarify, i support womens right fully, and just to say male entitlment is dangerous doesnt explain much. Is it as dangerous as female entitlement. Im not sure what it means precisely or what the dangers are
I think you must be being disingenuous here. Male entitlement includes having thinking you have ownership and rights over women, also while often being physically larger and stronger. In this case he felt entitled to put op on the spot and ask her personal information.
Kimilybob · 23/02/2022 01:31

Im 100% genuine, im trying to understand.

Surely he is entitled to speak to who he wants though as we all are as feeling uncomfortable is a subjective feeling out of his control.
I dont know why you think this is male entitlement. Were all entitled to do this. We used to value freedom....

MostIneptThatEverStepped · 23/02/2022 02:04

@Kimilybob

Im 100% genuine, im trying to understand.

Surely he is entitled to speak to who he wants though as we all are as feeling uncomfortable is a subjective feeling out of his control.
I dont know why you think this is male entitlement. Were all entitled to do this. We used to value freedom....

But can't you see that it just wasn't appropriate? He was there in a work capacity providing a service. He's not there to make women uncomfortable so he can fill his diary with dates. He took advantage of the situation and the OP's understandable awkwardness to push his own agenda instead of serving up burgers or whatever.

Meet someone in the pub or park or whatever? It's appropriate. But not at work like that.

Kimilybob · 23/02/2022 02:15

Why does it matter if he was at work? Cant you meet people at work? As i say the appropriateness was subjective as many would find that attractive going out on a limb at work to make them feel special. What im saying is this is in no way some entitlement that men enjoy. We all enjoy this freedom. Thankfully!

LunaLights · 23/02/2022 02:50

It is an absolutely inappropriate conversation to have whilst working. He is a representative of the company he works for, and as such should not be chatting up women or asking overly personal questions at all. If he wants to chat people up and ask for numbers, he does it on his own time.

If I were his manager, I would want this reported to me, as it is absolutely against the customer service standards we have in place for our interactions with customers/guests.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 23/02/2022 03:09

@Kimilybob

Who he wants to flirt with is his choice. We all experience uncomfortable conversations on a daily basis. Thats life!
He didn't "flirt".

He told her to give him her number. That's being demanding, not flirting.

It would be more applicable to the situation if you said:
Who he wants to be rude to is his choice. We all experience uncomfortable conversations on a daily basis. Thats life!

Grantingmum · 23/02/2022 05:47

Hmmm. So maybe he shouldn't have been at work when he asked but come on, all he did was ask for her number.
He might do it all the time, he might have really fancied her and thought why the hell not and it was a one off, he might have something going on where he can't read social situations very well, he might be a entitled arse.
I still think the OP needs more confidence in saying no (and that's ok). But the world would be a very boring place if we were all to scared to ask for someone's number for risk of offending anyone.

Clymene · 23/02/2022 06:33

@Grantingmum

Hmmm. So maybe he shouldn't have been at work when he asked but come on, all he did was ask for her number. He might do it all the time, he might have really fancied her and thought why the hell not and it was a one off, he might have something going on where he can't read social situations very well, he might be a entitled arse. I still think the OP needs more confidence in saying no (and that's ok). But the world would be a very boring place if we were all to scared to ask for someone's number for risk of offending anyone.
Give me boring any time rather than a world where men feel it's acceptable to harass female customers.
Grantingmum · 23/02/2022 06:37

@Clymene I think we have different ideas of what harassment is. In my world, asking for someone's number is not harassment.

StoppinBy · 23/02/2022 06:48

I'm with Kimilybob and Grantingmum on this one.

I don't think it's a big deal and I don't think asking someone to give you their number is a crime. You are entitled to say No if it happens.

Lots of great relationships came from chance meetings, maybe this could be one of them.

The whole 'male entitlement card' is thrown around too much IMO, both males and females are allowed to ask people for their number and both males and females are allowed to say no, walk away (feeling either annoyed or flattered whatever the case may be) and never think of it again.

Clymene · 23/02/2022 07:13

[quote Grantingmum]@Clymene I think we have different ideas of what harassment is. In my world, asking for someone's number is not harassment. [/quote]
My world is one where women can go about their business without men hitting on them.

ThatsNotMyGolem · 23/02/2022 07:17

I do not like making other people feel awkward or embarrassed.

You need to get over this for your sake and your daughter's. If someone is doing something you don't like, it is immaterial if they feel awkward or embarrassed when you pull them up on it.

TheCurrywurstPrion · 23/02/2022 07:45

For me, asking whether I had a husband would have been a red flag. Even if someone seems to be “just being friendly” and even if you think it’s part of their job, a question regarding relationship status from any man is almost certainly predatory.

I think I might have responded at that point with “Why do you want to know?” assuming I was mentally prepared. You say you normally lie, but doesn’t it make you uncomfortable that you feel you have to do so?

You can’t change other people’s actions, and it sounds like this might be something that happens again. The outcome here was negative - you felt awkward and now probably don’t want to go back there. So think carefully through your own reactions and whether there’s a way you might have handled it that would have left you feeling better about the way you handled it, even if you left thinking he was an asshole. With hindsight, were there any other points where you might have deflected?

Then next time the opportunity comes up to say “no” where you are tempted to say yes, even though you’d rather say no (ideally in a less complicated situation) then take it as an opportunity to begin saying what you want to say, rather than what you feel you ought to.

If you can learn to do this, it’s very freeing. You won’t manage it all at once, so don’t beat yourself up. Maybe look for assertiveness courses, if you can find one that would fit (I realise it’s not easy as a single parent) but more generally, I think we women need to start to fight back against our socialisation. Men like the one you encountered are far too used to taking advantage.

lovelyweathertoday · 23/02/2022 07:52

You did well OP. Despite the awkwardness you didn't give him your number and it was completely inappropriate for him to do that at work.

Grantingmum · 23/02/2022 08:31

@Clymene so what is anyone (male or female) supposed to do if they fancy someone?
I know this might be completely baffling but some people get into relationships with other people which started out as one of them hitting on the other.

Whatwouldscullydo · 23/02/2022 08:40

@Clymeneso what is anyone (male or female) supposed to do if they fancy someone?
I know this might be completely baffling but some people get into relationships with other people which started out as one of them hitting on the other

Perhaps ask them in a way and a place where there's an opportunity to say no?

I'm fromt of lots of people isn't that

SamphiretheStickerist · 23/02/2022 09:12

@Kimilybob

Just to clarify, i support womens right fully, and just to say male entitlment is dangerous doesnt explain much. Is it as dangerous as female entitlement. Im not sure what it means precisely or what the dangers are
That's so disingenuous, on so many levels!

Man at work flirts with female customer - NOT OK! Not professional. Not wanted, not solicited and, seemingly, not easily rebuffed.

@Grantingmum you do it when you are both free, at leisure. Not when one of you has no choice but to stand there and take it because you are trying to avail yourself of a service. Not when there is an audience that applies it's own pressure.

Clymene · 23/02/2022 09:25

[quote Grantingmum]@Clymene so what is anyone (male or female) supposed to do if they fancy someone?
I know this might be completely baffling but some people get into relationships with other people which started out as one of them hitting on the other. [/quote]
Have a chat with them when one of them isn't a customer with her child with her? Check that there's mutual attraction before going straight to asking for a woman's number?

Christ I can't believe people are defending a bloke who hit on a woman on her own with a child when she's given zero indication that she's in any way interested.

It's intrusive, inappropriate and creepy as fuck.

And this is the feminism board! Hmm

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 23/02/2022 09:29

[quote Grantingmum]@Clymene so what is anyone (male or female) supposed to do if they fancy someone?
I know this might be completely baffling but some people get into relationships with other people which started out as one of them hitting on the other. [/quote]
So why did he not simply write down his own number and offer that in the first place, which would have put the ball in her court?

Dinosaurwoman · 23/02/2022 09:38

There’s some fabulous examples of gaslighting on this thread.
OP report that man on your last day at Butlins. He is using his role to identify targets. The management will be furious with this predatory behaviour. It’s a family resort and they want customers to feel safe and comfortable.

Your OP is very bad publicity for Butlins and they will want to deal with this man.
If he’s so confident in public about crossing boundaries I hate to think how pushy he’ll be in private

Gumbomambo · 23/02/2022 09:46

The OP was with her child being served at a family food court at a family holiday destination and the person behind the counter didn’t just “cheekily” ask for her number. As OP describes he asked her several questions that she was uncomfortable answering, she was almost a captive audience as she was at the front of a queue and was waiting for him to provide the food she had paid for. She was uncomfortable and he had overstepped the boundaries on a professional level. This isn’t how you solicit for a date or how you meet someone. Are you seriously all telling me you think this guy is a catch? I would say set your bar higher but I think you would need to go out and buy a bar. I don’t want to go on a date with a cheeky crappy who won’t take no for an answer and neither does OP.

Gumbomambo · 23/02/2022 09:48

I meant chappy but I’m happy to let crappy stand.

Clymene · 23/02/2022 09:48

Any man who hits on a woman when she has a young daughter with her is trailing enough 🚩 to make bunting

Kimilybob · 23/02/2022 10:24

I dont see why people have issue with this. Id be awful if no one could hit on anyone without being labelled predatory!

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 23/02/2022 11:04

He was utterly out of order. You should be able to get a meal without being hassled. Women really shouldn’t have to spend their lives policing their public behaviour to avoid blokes demanding their number.
Gavin de Becker in the Gift of Fear talks about how women’s socialisation and societal expectations make them targets for boundary pushing behaviour because we are taught to be polite and considerate when sometimes we should be being much blunter.

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