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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Girl Guiding latest

197 replies

IsitM · 16/02/2022 14:09

"We want to update on a recent investigation into a breach of our Code of Conduct by a volunteer that received public attention. Girlguiding operates a thorough complaints procedure and takes all concerns raised very seriously.
In this case, the volunteer cooperated fully and the investigation has concluded. The volunteer made the decision to leave and is no longer a volunteer at Girlguiding."

twitter.com/Girlguiding/status/1493948407446224901?s=20&t=bupSPqZjpcdRV0VlXs7QpQ

OP posts:
KittenKong · 16/02/2022 17:06

Because they were on the attack in their announcement. And they didn’t give any updates but just sent any complaints or queries onto the police (not the death threats and abusing ones). And they still allow male bodied children/teens to join.

SamphiretheStickerist · 16/02/2022 17:06

[quote zorbazorbs]@Whatwouldscullydo so as I said an investigation was held then they were expelled. Same thing as what was happening with this one [/quote]
Not quite. Those women were expelled for questioning, in private, the policy changes being brought in. They were told to leave, their questions went unanswered, the issues remained... Nobody would be told that GG had become mixed sex, no additional safeguarding was put in place to accommodate male bodied people within the girl guides organisation, groups, trips etc etc.

A transwoman using social media in a way that would get many others sacked (teachers etc), was against GG guidance on SM usage, was protected. More women were fobbed off and many, like James Billington, tried to persuade readers that nothing untoward had happened. Against all logic safeguarding was ignored and the ONLY resolution has been that an individual has stepped down. The policies, the attitude, remain unchanged.

RoyalCorgi · 16/02/2022 17:07

The tweet says the investigation has "concluded". They haven't told us what the outcome was, just that Sulley decided to leave.

I don't suppose they're going to tell us why they reported women who complained to the police either.

SigourneyHoward · 16/02/2022 17:17

zorb their statement said they investigated, person complied, investigation concluded.

WellThatsMeScrewed · 16/02/2022 17:18

Christ how can anyone think that this is OK?

Do people not understand how historically Scouts had massive safeguarding issues. This is why this must be taken seriously. It is not some ‘GC women’ over reacting but recognising that ANY organisation that is set up for children is ALWAYS at risk of attracting those who harm children to their ranks.

We must learn from history.

Sod kindness.

Believe it not kindness does not play a part in safeguarding. Protecting children is paramount.

user1487194234 · 16/02/2022 17:21

I have given up being a Leader over this after 15 years
I was sad to leave in a lot of ways but I just couldn't square it with what was going on,and couldn't bear not to be able to question it

Cailleach1 · 16/02/2022 17:39

Nobody would be told that GG had become mixed sex

By stealth and pretending it hasn't. Creating the greatest possible endangerment for the girls as thus no safeguarding measures for mixed sex spaces would be implemented to protect the girls insofar possible..

Cailleach1 · 16/02/2022 17:47

What's more, they are actively rooting out the women who raise the safeguarding issues. Women who want to keep the girls as safe as possible.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 16/02/2022 17:51

'My point is that a woman would not have been nationally vilified.'

This seems rather naive.

TheCurrywurstPrion · 16/02/2022 17:56

I think it’s possible there would have been less furore if a random, unknown woman had done the same, though it’s not out of the question that it might have created a stir.

However, we have to compare like with like. If the woman in question was an equally controversial choice and obviously likely to be the subject of a great deal of interest because of that, then I believe the same would have happened, and possibly there would have been even more publicity and negativity aimed at her.

A huge part of the fuss can entirely be laid at the door of the Girl Guiding organisation. Their actions have led to this and most of the negative publicity Sulley has received can be laid at their door.

They pushed through an unpopular policy in secret, attempted to silence those who objected and tried to raise awareness, and then promoted someone as a kind of flagship trophy, demonstrating that they intended to rush ahead regardless of controversy and without even attempting to tackle any of the questions raised.

Any group that would do that without making absolutely sure their flagship person had absolutely no skeletons in the closet is utterly idiotic. That they didn’t even run basic checks is unforgivable. But no, it’s all women’s fault for objecting loudly and in numbers when Girl Guiding was caught with their pants down.

The reason so many women reported it is not because Sulley was trans. It is because Sulley is representative of a group that Girl Guiding has decided to promote, despite that group being by its nature controversial, and without attempting in any way to allay the genuine concerns that women have about their children’s safety.

The idea that outraged women, sick of the attempts to silence them, are to blame and are “transphobic” because when the opportunity was presented on a plate they complained en masse, is about as disingenuous as it gets.

Nomoresmoresthensnores · 16/02/2022 18:06

I work with youth volunteer organisations and also volunteer.
Honestly it doesn't make any sense why this person volunteered and that in itself would ring alarm bells...before they even did anything else. So the volunteers protocol is where I'd start. They weren't a casual volunteer either!
Presumably they don't have children in the movement.. they can't say they were involved in the past (as they were male) and really then there isn't any reason for them to have any affinity with GG. In my experience of Guiding and Scouting people go into it because there children are or they themselves were.. or similar. Often being involved for decades. Sometimes they are giving back once their own DC move on. Sometimes its partners. So perhaps his wife is a guider? But rarely is it no connection at all. Except sometimes would be adopters or student teachers etc need more childcare exposure...but that's not common. . This person can't claim they couldn't be a Scout leader as that is mixed and actually there's a lot of female leaders. Unless they didn't want them first. (Scouting are extremely hot on safeguarding nowadays. And even though there are tons of female leaders it is a bit 'blokey'.) They can't claim they wanted to do 'girly stuff' as guides is outdoorsy and they like shooting! So only reason left is to fulfill their own desires to be involved with 'women/girls'. A 'kind' person would say.. oh that's nice they missed out when they were a young girl trapped in a boys body'. Or there could be other reasons which I won't specify here!
So basically, and I'm so loath to use this expression...they were locally trying too hard to be woke and inclusive. In the rush to do this they forgot to basic sense check like they'd normally do. I saw something similar with a women's helpline i support recently..but unsurprisingly the person didn't last long as they had no experience personal or professional with the kind of help/advice the women callers were asking for as it really did require in 75% of occasions to have had lifelong experience of a female body. But the organisation was trying to hard to tick inclusion boxes.

KittenKong · 16/02/2022 18:51

I just hate the fact that they have been quick to expel women who have raised safeguarding concerns, and I’m sure would do the same if a woman in the same position had posted similar photos.

But no - they didn’t entertain any safeguarding concerns for an instant and went on the attack to those who questioned or raised concerns about this persons behaviour.

They went wailing to the police who did their usual bang-up job.

There are certainly some sacred cows around.

donquixotedelamancha · 16/02/2022 19:34

Is the Scouts an alternative? I wonder if as many Sulley's would be in the wings to be welcomed into any female single sex spaces. irrespective of whether it was in the girls interests of safety. Their HQ would no more prioritise the safeguarding of girls than that of the GG, I'd suspect.

Scouts is a lot better (not perfect) for a number of reasons:

  • Scouts focus training on the practicalities of safeguarding, GG are more interested in paperwork being done. They are actually very good by learning from failures of the past.
  • They are mixed sex, so it's not official policy that you can't acknowledge portential problems with accomodation.
  • There is much greater regional oversight and accountability.
candycane222 · 16/02/2022 19:51

Wow that statement. What a self-pitying, self-exculpatory, mendacious, hypocritical load of old shite.

timeisnotaline · 16/02/2022 19:54

@zorbazorbs the other difference is that when women leaders complained gg initiated the investigation- our leaders have an opinion about women, this is awful and totally against our policy let’s look into it was their immediate reaction. They didn’t react like that when made aware of sulleys social media presence, only when pressured too. A completely different reaction.

Nomoresmoresthensnores · 16/02/2022 20:40

This is what happens when organisations (run by young bright lefties) try to be super inclusive without first doing the usual checks on how it'll work in practice. GG isn't the first or only organisation to be doing this. And this kind of thing happens when the people making the decisions at Head office are all over inclusion (i.e. went to a few workshops) but know bugger all about important things like vetting volunteers, safeguarding training. No one can speak out because they don't want to appear prejudiced because right now no one can speak out in the Charity sector about the gender agenda.
Happens all the time where I work and who I work with.
Then to cover this incompetence they do a whitewash investigation and present findings and hope it'll all go away. You only have to look on the Charity Commission website to find scores of organisations with poor safeguarding and all kinds of issues that have been investigated.

Tiphaine · 16/02/2022 20:54

A man can identify as a garden shed, a teaspoon, or a sleek and wondrous unicorn. The fact remains he is a man. A person of the sex class that commits 99% of sex offences. Identifying and being are not the same.

Girl Guiding latest
Nomoresmoresthensnores · 16/02/2022 21:11

Because it's easier to boot out a few hard working, long serving middle aged women volunteers then look at a company policy which will throw management into a bad light. How do I know this? Because I work for a similar national organisation where they also do this. And guess what. Those senior leaders are also usually women. So it's a double kick in the teeth.

Falifornia · 16/02/2022 22:22

@reallyisthisallthereis

I'm disappointed by girl guiding's response to this. As a leader myself I am increasingly disillusioned with the top of the organisation.
Me too..... I'm wondering how much longer I'm going to last TBH. 20 years' service, might not be seeing 21
Justkeeppedaling · 16/02/2022 22:36

Our rigorous recruitment and vetting processes and policies help keep our members safe

Tosh and bunkum.

KittenKong · 16/02/2022 23:17

Looks like they have joined the scouts now…

DdraigGoch · 16/02/2022 23:52

I would hope that a natal woman leader with similar pictures in the public domain would also be similarly censured. Though I suspect not.

@ODFOx have you an example of a woman in a children's organisation with such content on their public social media?

MargaritaPie · 17/02/2022 00:00

So was the volunteer suspended because she broke the GG terms of agreement? Or did she choose to leave because she was hounded out by non-stop harassment?

Linguini · 17/02/2022 00:28

@MargaritaPie

So was the volunteer suspended because she broke the GG terms of agreement? Or did she choose to leave because she was hounded out by non-stop harassment?
I simply can't believe people are still sticking around to defend a willy waving, gun waving open paraphilic who wants to be involved with children.

And at the same time is claiming parents that object to the GG about this are participating in "non stop harassment".

It's unforgivable.

timeisnotaline · 17/02/2022 01:06

@MargaritaPie if it didn’t break their code of conduct, don’t you think that’s a big problem in itself as it absolutely should have? Instead of the get out of jail free card you seem to think it might be. It breaks the australian gg code of conduct, and no teacher would get away with such a social media presence.