What can I do about gender neutral toilets in college?

[mightbeasillyquestion]

First off, sorry if this has already been asked but most searches seem to be about workplaces or secondary schools and I'm not sure if the legislation is the same, apologies if it is. I am in Wales if that makes it any different. I am attending an FE college and there are no single-sex bathrooms available at all. There is some downstairs where one side is male and one female but the washing area is still communal, all the others are completely mixed. Firstly, I am confused as to whether this is actually legal as most google searches seem to lead to information about secondary schools. If it is illegal then what can I actually do about it, if anything at all? I have spoken to other girls and women there and they also feel uncomfortable with this. The toilets are the kind where the cubicle door touches the floor but the washing area is communal, I am confused as to whether you just need the enclosed room or if you need the sink in there as well.

Also, it is the only further education facility in my county apart from the Welsh-medium and I don't think it is fair that there is no way for anyone to access single-sex facilities in their education settings unless they travel and not everyone has the means to travel anyway.

I’ve been wondering the same thing. In Scotland

My institution has made 50% of the womens toilets gender neutral, you can guess how many mens toilets were allocated to convert to gender neutral… 0

I'm sure that some more clued up women will be able to give you some good advice but if I remember correctly all mixed sex toilets must be fully enclosed with sink in the cubicle to be legal. Good luck getting it sorted

@Stinkywizzleteets that sounds awful, particularly the inequality of not converting the mens, although not really surprising. At least it is better than no women's toilets though, although still awful that there are less and less.

Here you are mightbeasillyquestion
Fair Play for Women have information on changing rooms. I don't have time to see what else they have but hopefully this is a start:

fairplayforwomen.com/changing_rooms/

If it is also classed as a workplace (for example if staff also use the same toilets), I believe this would be against workplace regulations on toilet provision - see here for example www.hse.gov.uk/simple-health-safety/workplace-facilities/health-safety.htm

If I understand correctly, the part about the "lockable room" refers to a proper room with the sink inside, rather than just a cubicle with shared handwashing facilities.

I don't know what regulations apply though (if any) if it's not classed as a workplace but just as an adult education facility (there are some regs regarding provision for children in schools, but not sure those would apply here either due to the ages involved).

@Stinkywizzleteets

I’ve been wondering the same thing. In Scotland

My institution has made 50% of the womens toilets gender neutral, you can guess how many mens toilets were allocated to convert to gender neutral… 0

For that one you ought to have a clear-cut case of sex discrimination.

This might be slightly off topic (sorry OP. If you can't find specific rules covering FE colleges, I think it would still be indirect sex discrimination?) but to the posters saying fully enclosed with sink as the legal requirement for unisex (which I think is true):

I experienced these at a uni in London. They were in a secluded area of the building, and all the individual toilets still opened up onto a communal room. No way would I want to be in that secluded space with men I don't know, with a load of completely enclosed lockable toilets. It's an unnecessary risk for women that is built right into the design, imo.

I think that even when there are floor to ceiling partitions, and the basins inside, if there is a row of cubicles side by side, and it means the access is a communal narrow hallway, this is still unpleasant. You have to come face to face in the narrow hallway; there is the feeling you could be heard through the partitions.

Thank you to the people who sent links to information, it really helps my case, and to everyone else who responded. I believe it is also used by staff as well so I think they work regulations would apply. Sorry for the late response.
With regard to who I should ask about this, is is best to start low or high? I would like for my case to be legitimate and taken seriously although I think I may be dismissed due to my age which is under 20. Would it be in my best interest to get an older student or lecturer involved or to just ask about this directly myself?

I don't understand why this is an issue. They are all single sex in every school and college I have ever worked in all single cubicals with communal "open plan" washing areas.

No opportunity for anything untoward. Unless people go into a cubical together.

@maddy68 these toilets are not really open plan though. They are in a corridor secluded so women and girls may not feel comfortable using them.

Ask them for their Equality Impact Assessment and Risk Assessment relating to getting rid of single sex toilets.

This document might also be useful sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Toilet-provision-for-men-and-women-Sex-Matters-260121.pdf

@maddy68

I don't understand why this is an issue. They are all single sex in every school and college I have ever worked in all single cubicals with communal "open plan" washing areas.

No opportunity for anything untoward. Unless people go into a cubical together.

Have you read the OP? She’s talking about mixed-sex toilets, not single sex.

And no one wants a communal washing area. They want privacy.

@maddy68

I don't understand why this is an issue. They are all single sex in every school and college I have ever worked in all single cubicals with communal "open plan" washing areas.

No opportunity for anything untoward. Unless people go into a cubical together.

Wow. So the peeing next door to a bloke, washing hands next to a bloke, you have literally no idea why anyone might feel uncomfortable with that...or any sense that someone harassing you can easily follow you to the loo?

Wow. So the peeing next door to a bloke, washing hands next to a bloke, you have literally no idea why anyone might feel uncomfortable with that...or any sense that someone harassing you can easily follow you to the loo?

Ok, please don't pile on here, but I'm genuinely interested in what the concern is here.

Surely, if someone if harassing you, they can easily follow you to the loo, regardless of whether the sign on the door is male, female or ungendered - if they are harassing someone anyway they are unikely to care about a sign on a door. They can follow you to any quiet place you might go to, not just toilets.

I'm probably just being completely naive but I would genuinely like to understand this. I am female by the way and have been through all of the misogyny, microaggressions, issues with men in the past etc. which I won't go into. But I still wouldn't have an issue with a man peeing in the cubicle next to me or washing his hands in the sink next to me.

I genuinely don't really understand this position and struggle with it when I see there are benefits of gender neutral toilets for so many people. I actually think they make things a lot more straightforward in many ways. But probably this is just me (shrug).

I'd also be interested in the actual statistics of assaults that happen in gender neutral toilets vs. single sex toilets. I don't know if such statistics exist but I'm curious.

@onelittlefrog there was a report in the Sunday times a few years ago. Of the assaults that take place in public changing rooms and toilets, 90% of them take place in mixed sex ones. Single sex facilities are cheap and effective safeguarding for women and girls.

I don't think it's just you, but likewise there are many women who have good reasons for wanting single sex washing facilities and spaces too due to biological differences, religious reasons and safety. For example, females who wear hijab etc may wish to remove / adjust it or engage in ritual washing in a single sex environment. On other occasions in my life I have been called upon to assist a lady suffering from morning sickness, a miscarriage or a menopausal flood ( the last two requiring assistance to clean up and new clothing) which would have been challenging and more difficult for the victim in a mixed sex space.
Additionally, there's a safety aspect. Some mixed sex spaces can work because they are planned that way in advance with a full consideration of safety and lighting etc. Eg local shop frequented by teenagers has large shared sex changing room which is permanently staffed and where each cubicle with floor to ceiling door sits around the corners of a square with full lighting and visibility all round - so little chance of abuse. However this is not the case often. I've found that mixed sex facilities are often located away from public view, ill lit etc. Therefore from a safeguarding perspective much less comfortable for the vulnerable. I wouldn't be letting my little girl have her first experience of independently going to the ladies on her own in a shop or restaurant in such a case - and if they're honest, I suspect that most people would say the same.

I'm genuinely interested in what the concern is here.

If a man accesses the single sex women's loos the women already there can challenge him and demand he leaves.

When I worked in a pub many years ago any bloke who intruded into the ladies and didn't immediately leave on challenge was banned.

Single sex facilities are far safer for women. They also preserve dignity and privacy.

[quote HermioneWeasley]@onelittlefrog there was a report in the Sunday times a few years ago. Of the assaults that take place in public changing rooms and toilets, 90% of them take place in mixed sex ones. Single sex facilities are cheap and effective safeguarding for women and girls.[/quote]
Yes, I looked this up and you are right, although it seems to be purely focussing on changing rooms, which are more intimate in nature than a toilet/restroom. People obviously spend longer in a changing room and may be completely unclothed etc.

I can't find any research specifically relating to public bathroom facilities.

I don’t give a fuck about ‘actual statistics’. I care about how it makes women - by far the biggest group of victims of sexual assault - feel. If they don’t feel safe and comfortable using the bathroom, it’s a problem.

Recently my 13 yr old DD used the toilet to change her sanitary towel in a restaurant, not realising the toilets were all gender neutral. She came out of the cubicle to be the only female with three adult men standing in the sink/dryer area having a conversation.

Were the three guys all predatory rapists? Probably not. But my daughter felt intimidated and uncomfortable.

I have no problem with gender neutral toilets IF there are also adequate single sex options, btw.

If a man accesses the single sex women's loos the women already there can challenge him and demand he leaves

Surely if there is someone behaving untoward in a mixed gender facility, people already there can also challeng and demand that they leave?

And in fact if there are men already in there, they may be able to assist.

I don't really see this argument tbh and thought we were talking about times when there is nobody else there, which would be the same whether it is female only or mixed.

@onelittlefrog

If a man accesses the single sex women's loos the women already there can challenge him and demand he leaves

Surely if there is someone behaving untoward in a mixed gender facility, people already there can also challeng and demand that they leave?

And in fact if there are men already in there, they may be able to assist.

I don't really see this argument tbh and thought we were talking about times when there is nobody else there, which would be the same whether it is female only or mixed.

What about the other reasons people have explained?