Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What can I do about gender neutral toilets in college?

83 replies

mightbeasillyquestion · 13/02/2022 22:25

First off, sorry if this has already been asked but most searches seem to be about workplaces or secondary schools and I'm not sure if the legislation is the same, apologies if it is. I am in Wales if that makes it any different. I am attending an FE college and there are no single-sex bathrooms available at all. There is some downstairs where one side is male and one female but the washing area is still communal, all the others are completely mixed. Firstly, I am confused as to whether this is actually legal as most google searches seem to lead to information about secondary schools. If it is illegal then what can I actually do about it, if anything at all? I have spoken to other girls and women there and they also feel uncomfortable with this. The toilets are the kind where the cubicle door touches the floor but the washing area is communal, I am confused as to whether you just need the enclosed room or if you need the sink in there as well.

OP posts:
MoltenLasagne · 14/02/2022 16:07

I've told this story before about the risks of mixed sex toilets. Many years ago I was at uni in France. There was a new literature block built which for some reason only had mixed sex toilets. Initially I used the toilets without really thinking about it, but I had a couple of incidents with male students standing a little bit too close when I was coming out of the cubicles so you had to squeeze past, leering, that type of behaviour. Nothing out right and all within the bounds of plausible deniability, but intended to be intimidating. So after a month or so I switched to using the female toilets by the canteen.

Within a few months hardly any female students were using the mixed sex toilets despite literature being a female dominated subject and the toilets became a de facto male space. In the summer term a girl was assaulted in the toilets, and the overwhelming response was "well why did she use those toilets?"

Artichokeleaves · 14/02/2022 16:09

They will also care about equal opportunities for all students, so I would make a big deal about how this affects Muslim students.

It will not just be some Muslim women students affected. It will also quite obviously and predictably be for any college with the faintest scooby about inclusion:

Some Orthodox Jewish women
Some Gypsy/Roma/Traveller women
Some Women with Autism
Some Women with trauma who are survivors of abuse, DV, DA, VAWG and CSA
Some Women with PTSD
Some physically disabled women who may struggle to close doors
Some women on site with young children who may struggle to close doors

And that's aside from women who just want dignity, privacy and cannot use a space where male people are regardless of how the male person chooses to identify or the male person's feelings because the female person wanting the loo is there to meet their needs, not to provide care for the male person.

Those women, in percentage of population, are likely to be significantly higher than the percentage of male people requiring an alternative space to the male provision, so a reason would be needed as to why this small proportion of male people are provided for but the larger percentage of female people not? Direct discrimination on basis of sex.

Failure to anticipate and provide for obvious inclusion and access needs of females in women's facilities? Also discriminatory.

The whole point of women's facilities is that they must include and be accessible to all women. Not just the ones who were born male.

Justkeeppedaling · 14/02/2022 16:15

Do you have a Students' Union? You could start with them.

mightbeasillyquestion · 14/02/2022 16:21

@MoltenLasagne that sounds awful. I hope the girl got help after that and is alright these days. Absolutely disgusting that she was victim blamed, and even worse that it happened in the first place.

OP posts:
mightbeasillyquestion · 14/02/2022 16:26

@Justkeeppedaling I will have to ask if there is a student union. It says there is one on the website but they are listed for the different campuses owned by the college, not the one I attend. Maybe they just haven't updated it though since it's quite new still.

OP posts:
jellyfrizz · 14/02/2022 16:38

I wonder if we will ever find a solution.

Single-sex, gender-neutral toilets.

jellyfrizz · 14/02/2022 16:39

E.g. this toilet is for females of all genders.

thevassal · 14/02/2022 16:42

@mightbeasillyquestion

Also to the person who said that some young women are accepting of transwomen in their spaces, are they really? I know of a few people who claim to believe TWAW at no cost but when it comes down to it they are not. One of my friends who is a staunch TWAW, lesbians can have penis and like penis, people are who they say they are, etc doesn't actually believe this. As in, I have asked her if she felt comfortable with the toilets, before knowing how extreme her views were, and she said no and that she avoids using them. I think a lot of women who say TWAW and let them into our spaces are saying it for brownie points and to look accepting, including the younger ones. I think there's very few who genuinely believe it and aren't just trying to be nice to them as a lot of women are taught. But women's safety should be above being nice. Sorry for the rant.
That was me and the ones I've spoken to about this issue (both in real life (I was a union rep on my very large govt workplace council when we discussed changing toilets) and on forums) yes, honestly are fine with it. They aren't doing it for woke points they honestly are not bothered. Like I said,when I was younger I wouldnt have cared either. Now I can also see that the issue goes beyond my personal feelings to those who are more vulnerable/more uncomfortable than me which is why I generally don't support them (even though personally I quite like proper e.g. fully enclosed cubicle shared facilities). Not a fan of the repurposed ones that just take away from female only facilities and don't meet the official criteria.

I don't think its great to refuse to believe someone could feel differently to you. Its fine to disagree with people but very dismissive to say you know how they actually feel better than they do.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page