Lia Thomas - New Trans Athlete Guidance

[TheAbbotOfUnreason]

USA Swimming released its new Athlete Inclusion, Competitive Equity and Eligibility Policy (AICEEP) on Tuesday [1st Feb 2022], which will come into effect immediately.

swimswam.com/usa-swimming-publishes-athlete-transgender-policy/

USA Swimming press release states that:

the development of the elite policy therefore acknowledges a competitive difference in the male and female categories and the disadvantages this presents in elite head-to-head competition. This is supported by statistical data that shows that the top-ranked female in 2021, on average, would be ranked 536th across all short course yards (25 yards) male events in the country and 326th across all long course meters (50 meters) male events in the country, among USA Swimming members. The policy therefore supports the need for competitive equity at the most elite levels of competition.

www.usaswimming.org/news/2022/02/01/usa-swimming-releases-athlete-inclusion-competitive-equity-and-eligibility-policy

Elite athletes will need to show that prior physical development of the athlete as a male does not give the athlete a competitive advantage over female competitors and evidence of 36 months of lowered testosterone (

The only way that men would not have any physical advantage over women in any sport would be if those men were actually women who were identifying as men.
At a push, they would have to be men who did not go through any stage of puberty, so had been on puberty blockers from a very young age. As a primary school teacher, I see many many boys who’s strength far outweighs that of their age equivalent girls once they hit 9 or 10 years old.

How would they demonstrate that prior physical development doesn’t give an advantage? Surely it just does?

I think subjective criteria like that are so much more unkind that just a blanket ban. They should have just said these competitions are limited to females whereas now they've got themselves in a situation of making people argue that their maleness doesn't give them an advantage.

Makes me think of Lauren Jeska commiting attempted murder when UK Athletics were requesting samples etc and documents www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/14/champion-runner-lauren-jeska-jailed-for-attempted-of-uk-athletics-official-ralph-knibbs

No advantage= been on puberty blockers since childhood?

But I bet the TRAs will be up in arms today about the injustice. 3 years is a big time increase.

So what does this mean in practice? If they throw 1 race in 3 then everything is fine and dandy?

What about the women losing out on a swim team place to a male who reduces his T just enough and throws just enough races for authorities to turn a blind eye?

What about the women and girls at lower levels of the sport who may give up or never join in the first place because it's now mixed sex competition?

What about the women and girls who don't want to get naked in a changing space that is now mixed sex and don't want to see penises in there?

They've tried to do the bare minimum to appear 'fair' with this policy and it's not designed with the interests of women and girls in mind.

@MacNTosh

How would they demonstrate that prior physical development doesn’t give an advantage? Surely it just does?

This policy finally acknowledges that undergoing male puberty gives a huge advantage and needs to be taken into account, rather than just relying on lowering testosterone.

Let’s hope it works in practice, no doubt there will be claims that its unfair / discriminatory as it will require some kind of physical examination of transwomen.

@TheAbbotOfUnreason Agreed, but why is it worded in a way that implies there’s a chance that being born male may not have an advantage and that this can be demonstrated? It would have been clearer to say no to male bodies in women’s competition.

This might be a first stage. Although trans swimmers may be able to throw a few races, they will not be able to disguise the clear visual differences in strength. It's a 'holding' policy because there has clearly been a massive backlash

So unless the male has not been through male puberty the onus is on them to prove they don’t retain advantage.

And the onus is on them.

Potentially this is good news. Let’s see if they keep to it. I imagine the outcry will be huge.

Those mean women for complaining. Naughty women. And the coach is going to be livid!! No more potential records and wiping the pool.

Hmm. It's a good step, but there are still issues. At least it baldly states the facts about the differences between men and women and their speed.

But Lia Thomas isn't a member of USA Swimming, so it won't affect Lia.

But Lia Thomas isn't a member of USA Swimming, so it won't affect Lia. but bad press has and will

So technically a really weedy wee fella with rubbish lung capacity and arms like matchsticks could claim that their physical development have them no advantage?

"Elite athletes will need to show that prior physical development of the athlete as a male does not give the athlete a competitive advantage over female competitors and evidence of 36 months of lowered testosterone (

It may force the College sports orgs to follow suit??

In reading the article, I am very surprised at them leaving this open at non-elite levels. Really does seem like they might be doing the least for PR as they can.

It is like - we see there is an issue. We give you ‘x’ but we cannot be seen to be mean so the rest of you women and girls, suck it up princesses.

It will be very interesting to see what Thomas does here. Because USA swimming has effectively called Thomas a cheat. And Thomas knows the only people supporting them are heavily invested in the prestige Thomas winning will bring or heavily invested in forcing trans inclusion to the disadvantage of females. So Thomas is also now a political football in the swimming pool.

How are they going to measure advantage? Males competing against women are always going to be advantaged. And I don't go to watch women's sport to watch males who say their identity is female. I want to see the best of what women can do. Females. Not males who say they are women. The only way to deal with this farce is to have a blanket ban on all males competing in women only sport. Regardless of their gender identity. Most people don't get to be top athletes. Transwomen need to compete in their own sex class or accept that they too don't get to be top athletes, just like the majority of the population. Playing against women doesn't demonstrate that they are top athletes, it just demonstrates how easy it is for them to use women's sport to their advantage. It's cheating. The system has allowed them to do so.

I think Thomas is so privileged and so unconcerned with the effects on women that he is really up for being the political football, in fact he might have self nominated to be the standard bearer for the most marginalised (Harvard isn't it )

We'll see if this is the start of science being allowed back in. I love it when TRAs say "well, we didn't mean THAT" - rapists in women's prisons, women being carved out of their own sport etc

It is a teeny step in the right direction, but it would be far easier to admit what everyone knows which is that males have an advantage which makes it unfair in any circumstances (and no matter how much it upsets them to be “excluded”) to compete in women’s sports.

Restricting it to elite competition only suggests that non-elite women don’t deserve fair competition.

It's a start. It's a promising start.

But two concerns.

Firstly, it seems to allow second-rate men to compete in women's sport. Which is unfair to the women who would have otherwise got those places (it's not just the winners that counts!). And means audiences are stuck watching mediocre men rather than elite women.

Secondly, it only applies at the elite level. Now I'm an athlete. I'm far from elite. But I compete and I train hard.

I would be monumentally pissed off if I were beaten in a female category by a man. Monumentally. And this guidance seems to be saying it doesn't matter cos, for women like me, it's only a hobby. Which on one level is true, but is pretty insulting to the effort and enthusiasm those of us who aren't the cream put in.

Whilst on the surface this looks like they are trying to ‘do’ something, I feel this is all about them just ensuring trans athletes are kept out of elite swimming thus protecting USA elite swimming and their records, after all it would be deeply embarrassing for the States if a USA trans athlete beat Ariarne Titmus. Or if their under 15 female 100 m freestyle record was actually set by a boy. Girls would leave swimming in droves.

Sports bodies need to stop tinkering around the edges and move away from this ridiculous obsession with testosterone. Taking any drugs in sport is banned although not when it comes to trans athletes. Whilst they’ve put in a line about advantage through body development they haven’t gone far enough imo. Firstly you cannot this advantage by reducing T, secondly from birth there are differences in the sexes, we need to acknowledge and accept that nothing can mitigate these. We need 4 categories - female and male, trans men and trans women.

This is a start but I’m not sure their motives are about protecting female swimmers.

*and evidence of 36 months of lowered testosterone (

@Noisyprat

Whilst on the surface this looks like they are trying to ‘do’ something, I feel this is all about them just ensuring trans athletes are kept out of elite swimming thus protecting USA elite swimming and their records, after all it would be deeply embarrassing for the States if a USA trans athlete beat Ariarne Titmus. Or if their under 15 female 100 m freestyle record was actually set by a boy. Girls would leave swimming in droves.

Sports bodies need to stop tinkering around the edges and move away from this ridiculous obsession with testosterone. Taking any drugs in sport is banned although not when it comes to trans athletes. Whilst they’ve put in a line about advantage through body development they haven’t gone far enough imo. Firstly you cannot this advantage by reducing T, secondly from birth there are differences in the sexes, we need to acknowledge and accept that nothing can mitigate these. We need 4 categories - female and male, trans men and trans women.

This is a start but I’m not sure their motives are about protecting female swimmers.

Agreed.

Firstly, it seems to allow second-rate men to compete in women's sport.

Well, it shouldn't, because if second-rate men can compete in high level women's sport, then they obviously have an advantage...

Not winning with a motor on your bike against people who don't doesn't mean the motor wasn't an advantage, just means you're a sufficiently worse cyclist that the lack of ability cancelled out the advantage.

I am not a scientist but would be interested to know...

At the age of the progress to elite sport, hormones in young men are all over the place, not stable. Trying to supress to a level that would work in women's swimming would be something of a nightmare because of the other factors which people have pointed out - it's not just about testosterone levels

If coaches et al know that their transswimmer is never going to get into top flight, they may well decide it's better to concentrate on finding those potential elite women. Given the 'win at all costs' attitude in US colleges, they might think inclusion is becoming a bit of a non-starter. Lets see because I'd like to bet there are lots of pharmaceuticals out there working in a magic potion. Bit muddled but you know what I mean

I’m surprised that college / NCAA swimmers don’t have to be members of USA Swimming, given that’s the national governing body for the sport in the US.

In the UK, BUCS swimmers need to enter with accredited times, so you’d have to be a member of British Swimming.