Lia Thomas - New Trans Athlete Guidance

[TheAbbotOfUnreason]

USA Swimming released its new Athlete Inclusion, Competitive Equity and Eligibility Policy (AICEEP) on Tuesday [1st Feb 2022], which will come into effect immediately.

swimswam.com/usa-swimming-publishes-athlete-transgender-policy/

USA Swimming press release states that:

the development of the elite policy therefore acknowledges a competitive difference in the male and female categories and the disadvantages this presents in elite head-to-head competition. This is supported by statistical data that shows that the top-ranked female in 2021, on average, would be ranked 536th across all short course yards (25 yards) male events in the country and 326th across all long course meters (50 meters) male events in the country, among USA Swimming members. The policy therefore supports the need for competitive equity at the most elite levels of competition.

www.usaswimming.org/news/2022/02/01/usa-swimming-releases-athlete-inclusion-competitive-equity-and-eligibility-policy

Elite athletes will need to show that prior physical development of the athlete as a male does not give the athlete a competitive advantage over female competitors and evidence of 36 months of lowered testosterone (

Well, that story didn’t last long on the BBC homepage this morning. Colin the Caterpillar and Kate as rugby patron are more newsworthy, apparently.

I agree with Miri that a blanket ban would actually be kinder. For them to be respected, competitive and valued in their own right and not resented and constantly questioned in women’s sports.

We know there are issues with qualifications for Paralympic competition and people gaming that system for example.

We know that the constant disability PIP assessments in the uk are demeaning and to a large extent pointless (people with missing limbs are sent back for annual reviews as if the limb might have somehow grown back). I can’t imagine it would be enjoyable or dignified for the trans community to be subject to constant assessments against changing rules during their sporting careers. I definitely don’t think it’s fair for women to have to silently smile and wave while this inevitable conclusion that women need a specific category is reached.

I saw it briefly on the BBC news app this morning, but much of the article was actually about how the women on Lia's team were signing letters in support of Lia etc, but little indication of how 'freely' their support was given, or whether they were just afraid of backlash and being called bigots if they didn't.

but much of the article was actually about how the women on Lia's team were signing letters in support of Lia

But again, note the distinction. Those opposed make arguments, and talk about their experience and make arguments against. Those in favour "sign" bland statements about "inclusion".

Both doing so anonymously, but only one actually has some content...

Although some are prepared to try and make an argument:

Stanford swimmer and Tokyo Olympian Brooke Forde also released a statement last week in support of Thomas. "I believe that treating people with respect and dignity is more important than any trophy or record will ever be, which is why I will not have a problem racing against Lia at NCAAs this year," she said.

(Presumably the women involved are not people, and hence don't have to be treated with respect and dignity?)

[quote MrGHardy]"Elite athletes will need to show that prior physical development of the athlete as a male does not give the athlete a competitive advantage over female competitors and evidence of 36 months of lowered testosterone (

This is no longer about fairness in the US is it? Like everything else with any controversy it has become political

I just saw this on twitter.

Does anyone know the time scales for testing?

twitter.com/cryptocluniac/status/1488761690716090370?s=21

Sorry I haven't been following closely.

*Elite athletes will need to show that prior physical development of the athlete as a male does not give the athlete a competitive advantage over female competitors and evidence of 36 months of lowered testosterone (

It's a start isn't it? But would have been so much easier just to stand up for single sex swimming competitions.

As a primary school teacher, I see many many boys who’s strength far outweighs that of their age equivalent girls once they hit 9 or 10 years old.

If you track average child lung capacity via peak flow readings that are used to gauge if asthma meds are working, it's around age 13 that there starts a clear large difference in lung capacity between the sexes despite the same height. (Hard to tell but following the curves back). Very big difference at 15. Same height.

It's fuzzy as you transition between paediatric measurements and adult, but " with increasing age, larger differences occur between the sexes."

Swimming relies on a strong lung capacity (and improves it.)

there's always variations within individuals though so I'm not sure if it's not an easy measurement to track

At some point, US sports officials are going to realise that if they muddy the waters like this, so will other countries and those other countries will do it far, far better.

The upshot will be virtually no US female Olympians further down the line. Forget the East German doping scandal, that will look like child's play. You will get Russia and China putting forward athletes for female categories that are essentially biological, surgical and endocrinological rebuilds, tweaked to precise calibrations.

And ten years after competition, those "rebuilt" champions will physically fall to bits, but the medal will be on the wall and that will be all that matters to the officials.

It really isn't difficult or complicated to just keep men out of women's sport.

And of course "men" includes men who pretend to be women.

No males in women's sport.

No, thank you.

Article in the Times:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/41477c1e-8424-11ec-a9c8-2dfad00a5965?shareToken=fdd0d0da06d62afebb1e071d7d90a2c2

@highame

But Lia Thomas isn't a member of USA Swimming, so it won't affect Lia. but bad press has and will

I have friends stateside and they all say this has not been reported on at all in the left wing media (IE MSNBC/CNN/All mainstream media)

The only places reporting on this are right wing newspapers and news networks.

I wish they could see this isn't a left or right wing issue, but a woman's rights issue.

The Daily Mail on line is covering this "Stay in your lane: Trans swimmer Lia Thomas' career appear to be over for now...."
Sorry I don't have the IT skills to share.

@highame

But Lia Thomas isn't a member of USA Swimming, so it won't affect Lia. but bad press has and will

True, but will Lia care? Lia might just carry on swimming against women...

Washington Post FINALLY covered this issue as a PP noted the MSM is not covering Lia as they should. www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/02/01/usa-swimming-transgender-policy/

Not surprisingly, the MOST LIKED comment on the WaPo article was this:

"It is impossible to change one's sex. No amount of hormones changes the physical differences between men and women. Men have larger lungs, hearts, have fast-twitch muscles, narrow pelvises (makes a difference in running), on average are taller, have stronger arms/hands, different bone structure, thicker neck muscles, different hemoglobin, more efficient use of oxygen and demonstrably stronger upper body strength than females. I can't believe they need a committee to explain what everyone has known since hominids walked the earth. It's just that nobody wants to say Captain Obvious...Lia is a man. Men competing w/ women in sports is unfair and in some sports is dangerous (boxing, rugby, etc.)."

I wish the sporting bodies would just have the courage to keep women's sport female only.
They are very strict with Paralympic criteria so I really don't see what the difficulty is.

The difficulty is Trans. And Biden's policy.

I wish the sporting bodies would just have the courage to keep women's sport female only.. They are very strict with Paralympic criteria so I really don't see what the difficulty is.

The difficulty is that in the Paralympics, you're dealing with balancing the rights of men vs men and women vs women.

All fairly straightforward.

In this case, men vs women, they would have to figure out how to help women without upsetting a man. Quite a conundrum.

Excellent comment there @Delphinium20 and very heartening that 1. It was allowed snd 2. So many likes.
Are Americans finally waking up to what is going on and will there be a push back? I do hope so.

I just have such a problem with a trans woman proving that there is no physical advantage....

An elite athlete's goal is to be the best - the fastest, the strongest. And so you train and build up the right techniques, muscle memory etc to compete against others doing the same thing, at the same time as taking drugs that are supposed to reduce your performance, so at what point do you know that all your performance enhancing advantages are gone and any residual ability is due to your training?

And if a trans woman comes first or breaks a world record how would anyone know that all the natural advantage has been eliminated first?

It is such a nonsense, such a mockery, and I agree with a previous pp that us ladies who join kickboxing clubs and running clubs and play netball and football for local teams are completely let down....

It is almost as though women don't really matter, isn't it?

Are Americans finally waking up to what is going on and will there be a push back? I do hope so. I don't think this is about wake up. The strategy of the Trans ideologists has been stealth (Denton's lays this out) and the left wing media hasn't reported. Unfortunately that sort of attitude just angers people when they find out the press think their readers are stupid and wont have the nouse to look elsewhere. What are the viewing figures for CNN and are they decreasing - that can be an biggest indicator. I've just checked and yes, a drop of 90% in January - staggering but also good news