Mumsnet Webchat about women/mums in politics with Stella Creasy and Caroline Nokes - 1st February

[Bosky]

Anyone got any questions for Stella and Caroline?

Go to:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/4468388-Webchat-about-women-mums-in-politics-with-Stella-Creasy-and-Caroline-Nokes-1st-February

I used to rail against the HOL and the fact that those who are members are unelected. Completely changed my mind now as its become obvious that there needs to be a second house where the member's main concern isn't whether or not they'll get re-elected..

There's simply too many career politicians who've gone straight from university into politics, with no life experience. There needs to be a huge push at grassroots level to encourage people to get involved in local politics - village hall committees, community councils, local party political groups etc as well as regional and national politics.

Just look at the shitshow in Scotland to see what can happen without a second chamber. I'm politically homeless.

The juggling a wiggly baby line bugged me and I have been trying to work out why.

I'd suggest it was attempted forced teaming and that's why it made you feel uncomfortable.

@TinselAngel

The juggling a wiggly baby line bugged me and I have been trying to work out why.

I'd suggest it was attempted forced teaming and that's why it made you feel uncomfortable.

I totally agree Tinsel.

That is how it came across to me.

I think the above poster has it when she said the baby line wouldn't have been used with a male 'professional' audience. Dumbing down for a really educated audience was never going to land well.

@Waitwhat23

I used to rail against the HOL and the fact that those who are members are unelected. Completely changed my mind now as its become obvious that there needs to be a second house where the member's main concern isn't whether or not they'll get re-elected..

There's simply too many career politicians who've gone straight from university into politics, with no life experience. There needs to be a huge push at grassroots level to encourage people to get involved in local politics - village hall committees, community councils, local party political groups etc as well as regional and national politics.

A group of our friends are plotting to take over the parish council and be independents when the current crop die.

Until they do, its a waste of time, because they have no interest in change and just pull rank and the party loyalty shit. The leaders have been doing it since the early 1980s. Ironically they are terrified of the trend locally for independents threatening their dominance and the fact they are not attracting younger people into the party locally to stand (Nimbyism hasn't exactly helped young people move to the area).

Half the problem is the party system itself tbh. People don't want to go into politics because of the bullshit of the party system.

Its Party before Country.

The HoL is interesting, because it has cross benchers and party loyalty has a tendancy to go out the window more frequently (in part because if being cross bencher is a viable option the threat of losing the whip doesn't really hold much weight).

Politicians need to address why women - much more than men - feel they aren't represented by parties, so why WOULD they want to stand for election for a party who doesn't want them to say certain things or spare your inconvenient experiences?

There are SO many reasons why women, especially women with children, aren't going into politics.

Being able to have your wiggly baby with you because Parliament is so backward it doesn't do maternity leave, really fly on the radar of most women who are politically aware but don't feel they want to work in politics...

I don't really care if a woman has a wriggly baby on her lap and says so, though I can see your points about forced teaming. It's fine to try and empathise/build rapport with your audience and given that it's 'mumsnet', okay.

What I DO care about is whether a politician is willing to listen. Are you, Stella? Because if you were, I'd love to talk to you, and so would many women here.

I have a feeling the Wiggly Baby will haunt Stella's career as it goes.

For all the 'be kind' comments and 'higher level of debate' - they both seem quite quiet about the abuse women, mums and MN is now receiving because of the webchat. I notice Stella has commented on it but this is actually the perfect opportunity for Stella, Caroline and their parties to prove they're serious about encouraging women and mums into politics.

If yesterday wasn't just lip service then they should all put out a robust statement saying women having a discussion and asking questions isn't 'radicalisation'; that the posts on Twitter completely prove our point that abuse is a barrier to women participating in public life (whether that abuse comes from MPs; MSPs; journalists; men; women).

If they're serious about anything they came to discuss yesterday then the furore has given them the perfect opportunity to step up.

And just to add, I am raging that middle class Twitter always assumes women who are articulate must be middle class and from the home counties. Lots of us are neither of those.

@Franca123

'Be kind' made me flip my lid. Total waste of time to discuss women's rights with people who think anyone can be a woman. Hope they both lose their seat at the next election.

Yeah, me too.

What an utterly craven pair they made.

The nerve of them to come here only to insult us like that.

Its funny, Ken Clarke was been caught on camera describing Theresa May as a “bloody difficult woman”, whilst Thatcher was referred to as the Iron Lady.

Terms that were thrown about as insults and an attack.

Yet these two women became PM.

Polls show that the electorate - particularly at the moment - are looking for strong leadership and people who have conviction, credibility and put the public first.

Then we get told by Creasy and Nokes that we should 'Be Kind'. Something here doesn't quite fit.

Its almost as if the expectation is that women shouldn't rock the boat and be difficult. Which is hardly credible. It lacks conviction. Certainly, if you aren't prepared to outright say 'If Izzard wanted to go on an AWS I'd have no problem with that', rather than the usual dodge the question reply so you can play the game of 'both siderism', to avoid losing votes.

At some point, you have to go with your convictions and take a side and then, once you've taken a side either stick to your guns or go, ok fair point we should take that particular issue seriously and I am adjusting my POV as a result. I'd respect that a hell of a lot more, rather than this wishy washy, trying to pretend I have/don't have certain views to avoid offending anyone. Just be bloody straight about it from the word go.

Women are socially not allowed to have opinions. They are frowned on for sticking up for themselves. They are outright ridiculed for refusing to just suck up what they are told they should do.

Yet our two most successful female politicians were the very two who had the biggest reputations for it.

I am not a particular fan of the politics of either, but I can't take Creasy seriously when you think about her in comparison.

As a rule, politicians attempts to identify with the public have a tendacy to backfire. I wonder if holding up your baby in a carrier whilst they wiggle, is the new 'bloke down the pub in white shirt with sleeves rolled up', or 'politician in hard hat and high vi' photo op. Also see, politicians eating ice cream or chips or bacon butties.

And surely we should we be aspiring to be more difficult if we want a career in politics?

'Be Kind' is a Tshirt slogan for toddlers. (Especially the female kind, funnily enough).

It's not life advice for how to get ahead in politics.

@WarriorN

I don't know how Posie says she's not a radfem; she agrees with many core principles. Eg women being supported to look after their babies!

She's been criticised so many times by other women and feminists who told her that she's 'not a feminist'.

She's probably a 'domestic zombie', or whatever that rude expression was to denigrate women like her.
Those pesky wives and mothers, eh!

RED: 'Its almost as if the expectation is that women shouldn't rock the boat and be difficult.*'
*
Precisely. And they both have adhered to this in their careers to date I suspect, which is why they think we should too.

I am offended by the patronising "be kind' bullshit they espoused yesterday, they misjudged their audience badly.

Ameanstreakamilewide I never got my head around what all that zombie stuff was about.

Women looking down their nose at other women, that's what 'domesticated zombies' was about. Plus it was Sarah Ditum who started it, complaining on Twitter that women who are gender critical know fuck about actual feminism. Or something.

Basically it boiled down to professional feminists moaning that ordinary women had the fucking gall to think they could stand up for their own rights when they has read not a single page of feminist literature., like.... 'I mean we been doing this for years and they have just started and think they can have an opinion?'

'Domestic zombie' would make another good Tshirt slogan. Ooh, or an apron.

Bwahahaaha....

Do you think Creasy and Noakes were surprised by the reaction they got?
I wonder wether coming out of the TRA echo chamber to interact with biological women has given them something to ponder.
I’m surprised they came out with the “Be Kind” crap, clearly they haven’t been reading the feminism board or they would have realised that would be shooting themselves in the foot.
I do hope they are reading these comments.

@Dinosaurwoman

Do you think Creasy and Noakes were surprised by the reaction they got? I wonder wether coming out of the TRA echo chamber to interact with biological women has given them something to ponder. I’m surprised they came out with the “Be Kind” crap, clearly they haven’t been reading the feminism board or they would have realised that would be shooting themselves in the foot. I do hope they are reading these comments.

No.

At best it will just confirm what they've been told. That MN is a bad place.

@FOJN

How can we trust politicians to draft usable legislation if words have no meaning?

How can you actually discuss women in politics if we can't agree on what a woman is?

Does anyone think my car insurance would pay out for a broken TV if I said it identified as a Volvo?

We enshrined a lie in law in 2004 and now we are dealing with the consequences. Legislators knew they were passing law based on a lie as evidenced by the primogeniture clause.

Great post.

@IKeptYouLikeAnOath

Ah yes, but they just dismiss us as a transphobic cult, and not reflective of women in general, so they don't have to engage with a tricky subject that might personally inconvenience them 🤷🏻‍♀️

Talking of transphobic cult, I was very disappointed that the thread by the Manchester Uni researcher got deleted - I was in the middle of posting a rather good response. I did think she might at least have tried to disguise her obvious bias.

What's the aim of this transphobic cult?

To protect children by not watering down safeguarding and making bloody stupid exceptions that will very obviously end in disaster

To not exclude female people from women-only spaces

To in fact have solutions that work for everybody.

I mean, the evil of it. The absolute gall.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't come to this "event" to debate and were speaking in broader terms? Thus explaining why they didn't enter into a debate?