Giggle- CEO speaks common sense.......

[Pineapplemonkey]

Apologies for the DM link and if I've missed another thread on this but I think I'm in love with the CEO of Giggle! Shame it's in Australia but we can but hope more start speaking up.

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10440613/Female-app-Giggle-slammed-discriminating-against-trans-women-women-colour.html

Has anyone here used the app properly? I love Sal on twitter and am supportive of the idea of the app. I'm just not massively a social media person, despite being a millennial. So although I downloaded a while ago, I've still not actually worked it out.

I'm a massive fan of Sal on Twitter. She's been getting abuse for a while now. I do wonder why they're trying to make this a story now. It's not new or news. But it's always good to let more people see what the TRA movement is like.

Aaargh, I've got the rage with this shit tonight. It's fabulous to see someone standing up to it all.

Great stuff.

Give no shits about males demanding access to something specifically not for them.

Plenty of other apps available, yet they purposely target one that is unashamedly female only, and they cannot fucking tolerate being told NO.

It's never about 'inclusion', it's intrusion, invasion, colonisation, and validation.

@NonnyMouse1337

Ha! These dudes always have to drag in 'women of colour'. Nah, I managed to sign up just fine, pal. My dark skin doesn't magically turn you into a woman.

The other thing is that, if you hadn’t, it would be because the AI wasn’t doing its job properly* whereas it’s doing what it’s meant to by excluding trans women.

I don’t understand what is so confusing to them about this: AI distinguishes between the sexes, so its exclusion of trans women from Giggle is the result of it doing just that. The Giggle CEO has stated that the majority of people complaining about the alleged exclusion of women of colour are white males - could it possibly be that one sub-group of white men are frustrated by the fact all AI programmes are far & away the best at identifying them of all the sex/ethnicity options? A white man at the bottom of a well could be dressed as a ninja black cat in heavy mourning & AI would still correctly identify his sex. How exactly do we think Giggle are expected to “fix” this? I’m sure they want so-called cis-men excluded, but…

It is good to see Sali Grover sticking so firmly to what she decided after “educating” herself. (They’ve STILL not figured out isn’t not a good idea to demand that of intelligent women, have they?)

• yes, that’s a literal TED Talk; thankfully things have improved significantly since then

I love this quote:

'The only reason anyone is struggling to answer “what is a woman?” is because men are claiming to be women.

Loved this. Thank god

It’s not Sal Grover’s problem that AI correctly sexes people. And that women are entitled to women-only spaces. If the AI excludes men from women-only spaces the technology is doing the job it’s supposed to do the majority of time that men want it to - like using Twitter to abuse women.

I think sal is absolutely great, and very brave. Someone close to me gave me shit for liking something of sal’s on Twitter, their comments were sweary about fucking transphobic shit and then they got pissed off it was an instant block from Sal - I was really upset they were so blinkered that they didn’t agree with anything being just for women and thought that Sal should just put up with people swearing at her or she was obviously not willing to ‘listen’. Usually I respect them but this was just an insane thought process.

I'd forgotten but I supported Sall a year or two ago, via Lift Women. Went back to check how she's doing and it's remarkable!

www.liftwomen.com/projects/giggle-the-female-app/

De-lurking to say like so many of you, I am so sick of all this shit. It's just exhausting. I saw this Giggle thing a while ago so why now? Are they running out of targets so re-hashing old ones?

Why can't women just have one fucking space or place without a man feeling the need to invade? It's impossible to have any kind of debate with the trans people who have such an abusive and hostile agenda to women. Why? Why do they want to take any woman down who believes in actual biology and SCIENCE? They hate women so why are they acting like everything we have is so great they must take it? Go and make your own trans women app if there aren't any suitable already. Create and campaign for your own spaces, don't just barge in and demand access to those which women have worked hard to create and protect.

I have long ago reached the 'fuck it' and 'fuck off' point so I'm so glad there are women stronger than me who keep fighting the fight and speaking the facts.

I remember having a Twitter argument with Sall ages ago over the name Giggle and her marketing of it as an app 'for girls' when it was aimed at adult women. The word 'girls' is offputting to many feminists but does appeal to a certain kind of TRA.

I'm very pleased to see she has gotten off the fence and now sees the value in an explicitly female-only app.

@ErrolTheDragon

Good strong, clear statements.

I'm still not keen on 'giggle' though. Perhaps she could develop a site for older members of the sisterhood - Cackle, maybe?

I’d join “Cackle” 😆

The reviews and responses are something else

I don’t understand what is so confusing to them about this: AI distinguishes between the sexes, so its exclusion of trans women from Giggle is the result of it doing just that.

The thing is, originally transwomen were permitted via manual intervention.

It was the stink they started causing that convinced Sal that actually letting them in was causing more of a problem, so she reversed policy and said, no - this whole concept will work better and make more sense as female-only.

It was the admission of transwomen to a female-only app that was the error, and she has already corrected it.

As I understand it there are lots of TW in the various fields of computing - perhaps some of them need to work on teaching AI to identify gender rather than sex?

This Totally Real, Observable & Measurable Thing of Gender Identity will of course be recognisable by AI if you just provide it with enough examples to learn from. And then we teach AI to read auras.

The thing is, originally transwomen were permitted via manual intervention. It was the stink they started causing that convinced Sal that actually letting them in was causing more of a problem

Unfortunately this strategy does work. Many companies don't hold their nerve examine the issues and listen to customers like Giggle has.

If anyone has a spare minute you can download the app to add some positive reviews or just mark the toxic reviews as unhelpful. Giggle's success will encourage other companies to provide women only services.

@SmallOrFarAway

De-lurking to say like so many of you, I am so sick of all this shit. It's just exhausting. I saw this Giggle thing a while ago so why now? Are they running out of targets so re-hashing old ones?

Why can't women just have one fucking space or place without a man feeling the need to invade? It's impossible to have any kind of debate with the trans people who have such an abusive and hostile agenda to women. Why? Why do they want to take any woman down who believes in actual biology and SCIENCE? They hate women so why are they acting like everything we have is so great they must take it? Go and make your own trans women app if there aren't any suitable already. Create and campaign for your own spaces, don't just barge in and demand access to those which women have worked hard to create and protect.

I have long ago reached the 'fuck it' and 'fuck off' point so I'm so glad there are women stronger than me who keep fighting the fight and speaking the facts.

Well said and this echoes my own feelings of WHY can't they leave us alone and let us have just a few things that are only for us?

I downloaded the app in support, and it can't verify me - I do have a pretty strong jaw!
Interested to see what the process is now - am not remotely offended about being "misgendered", but wonder how they verify?

Interested to see what the process is now - am not remotely offended about being "misgendered", but wonder how they verify?

Wouldn't know how you trigger it, but you get referred to manual review - often by Sal herself. She mentioned in an interview (I think it was with Glinner) that she's never received so many dick pics.

Oh for fucks sake - men denied entry to something decide to show their dick

Just to be clear, I am a woman, in the original sense of the word, I have the XX chromosomes, I make the large gametes, I am fucking furious about what is happening to our rights

Signed up ! Thanks for the heads up

you get referred to manual review - often by Sal herself. She mentioned in an interview (I think it was with Glinner) that she's never received so many dick pics.

That's a very sophisticated AI, to know they are all men. Lots of politicians and heads of charities are unable to tell whether someone is a man or a woman just from a dick pick.