EHRC says no case for GRA reform re Scottish gov

[WarriorN]

According to fair play for women.

Awaiting confirmation via a link

@WeeBisom

I’m finding it incredible seeing supposedly senior lawyers saying the EHRC is not fit for purpose and isn’t upholding rights when it’s statement said it wanted to protect trans rights but needed to protect women too, and more clarification about the term “trans” and “conversion therapy” is needed as well as a discussion about why the GRC should be even available to people who don’t have dysphoria. It seems that anything other than 100 percent agreement is perceived as bigoted.

If past experience is anything to go by, this will just harden the EHRC's stance.

Once they truly see the scale of the issue, and quite how far transactivists want to take their ideology, it does tend to sharpen one's attitude.

So reading through a number of responses to this on twitter I actually found someone answering the question of "What right's don't trans have here in the UK?". I have to say this is a first for me as I hadn't seen anyone have a crack at answering it as its usually ignored.

Am I missing something? Don't they have those rights already?

Those aren't rights, they're demands. They want to compel people to deny reality to their own detriment.

They can call themselves what they want, what they can't do is compel other people to do likewise.

And how does that work with men with AGP? They want to compel the public at large to participate in a paraphilia?

When people ask what rights don't you have, they generally mean, what rights do you think are under threat. Not what extra personal rights would you personally like for your person and force everyone else to agree.

@Appledrop

So reading through a number of responses to this on twitter I actually found someone answering the question of "What right's don't trans have here in the UK?". I have to say this is a first for me as I hadn't seen anyone have a crack at answering it as its usually ignored.

Much might hinge on what somebody perceives to be discrimination given the behaviour of (say) Bradley, Sulley, India W, Hayden, Fae, Montgomery etc.

It's almost as if some people aren't aware of what women experience on such a regular basis that it's just background noise for most of us moving through our days.

@WarriorN

Am I missing something? Don't they have those rights already?

Depends what they mean by "the right to be recognised as the correct gender".

They can use the GRA process to have that recognised, have documents changed etc...but that goes back to the earlier point of "gate kept" they want to be able to just say it and it be true or to be like Izzard and Bunce and change it on a daily basis as suits.

I suspect they also mean they want the public at large to recognise everyone's inner gender all of the time even those people where nobody could possible know by sight alone they identify as something other than the obvious.

Surely gender means nada under the law. Sex is the factor.

They can already change their name, and ask to be called by a different pronoun. They have the right to ask. And they have the right not to be discriminated against on that basis.

But saying I disagree that you are the sex you want to be, is not discrimination. Neither is saying that certain things are segregated by six, not the sex you want to be.

They want the right to compel people. And for disagreement to be labelled discrimination.

Well having just watched 1st ministers question Stergon was asked about the letter by meghan Gallagher (tory) and good old nick is redoubled down whilst basically saying that the ehrc has changed its mind that's not fair we are right it's all lies (am paraphrasing obviously).
It doesn't look good people

The problem is that sex and gender are muddled up in Scottish legislation. It's possible to take two meanings from the same sentence - which, with the caveat that IANAL, sounds like a bad idea to me.

The EHRC won't stop the GRA going through next month, I don' think. But, it will help the subsequent court cases.

Long haul pulling required.

Yes Nicola looked personally affronted and annoyed that they had ‘changed their mind’ since 2017. That’s all she really had to say in answer to a quite in-depth question. Was quite a peevish response.

NS was never going to change her mind but this all proves the consultation was a sham.

Wow Maggie Chapman was terrible there.

The Baroness is newly appointed therefore she cannot be impartial. U WOT.

I live in Scotland and think it will be a hard job getting the SNP to step back from this.

I know Glinner's been asking for examples of 'throw the toys out of the pram' statements from different organisations, but having seen a number of them in quick succession on Twitter, the only thing that strikes me is the crass immaturity of the content.

Is this what passes for professional communications these days? How can these people be calling the shots?

@Appledrop

So reading through a number of responses to this on twitter I actually found someone answering the question of "What right's don't trans have here in the UK?". I have to say this is a first for me as I hadn't seen anyone have a crack at answering it as its usually ignored.

Many of these are already protected, in law, in the UK, if not all of them.

The Equality Act protects anyone 'undergoing a process of gender reassignment' from discrimination, etc.

@jellyfrizz

So… is the solution the following: let’s make obtaining a GRC as easy as possible. A statutory declaration is all you need. BUT: the sex based exemptions are mandatory. These would be clearly stated: e.g. changing rooms, toilets, hospitals, prisons, sports. Not only is the provider not discriminatory in keeping those single sex, but they are legally bound to do so.

I'd be a-ok with people declaring whatever gender they wished and getting a framed sparkly certificate for it as long as it is absolutely clear that it is nothing to do with sex.

Same. Hand them out like sweeties, no problem, choose whatever gender you like, one for every day of the week - who cares?

So long as sex is enshrined and the single sex exemptions in the EA are upheld, that's all tickety boo.

Beggars belief women are getting all this shit just for asking for the existing law to be respected.

@ScreamingMeMe

Wow Maggie Chapman was terrible there.

The Baroness is newly appointed therefore she cannot be impartial. U WOT.

Yes. 'We thought we had it in the bag.'

The point between 2017 and now is that women have demanded that they are listened to.

Honestly, what woman genuinely thinks that addressing sexism is something that you can leave up to the patriarchal class??

She's talking about the exceptions, and saying that yes, sports have the right to exclude transwomen, so it's all fine. But guess what, they're not doing it, love.

Because hello, patriarchy.

She's asking permission of the specific cohort of men who, more than any other cohort want to uphold stereotypes, to ignore them.

Absolute bloody idiot.

Well let’s enforce the exceptions then:

No post pubertal males in women’s sports.

Hospital wards and prisons to be single sex.

Ensure that women’s crisis services are for women only.

Provide separate services for males, however they want to identify.

Somehow, I can’t see any of the above happening without screams of “transphobe” and “bigot” and much wailing and renting of garments.

@TheAbbotOfUnreason

Well let’s enforce the exceptions then:

No post pubertal males in women’s sports.

Hospital wards and prisons to be single sex.

Ensure that women’s crisis services are for women only.

Provide separate services for males, however they want to identify.

Somehow, I can’t see any of the above happening without screams of “transphobe” and “bigot” and much wailing and renting of garments.

The exemptions aren't "enforceable" because they are optional. The EA2010 spells out certain circumstances in which a service provider could legally justify excluding trans people from certain single sex services, but exclusion is never compulsory. Any service provider can choose to be trans inclusive even if they could technically argue for an exemption. That's why some rape crisis centres are women only excluding trans women, some are women only including trans women, and some offer services to anyone of any sex or gender. All three options are legal under the EA2010.

Blueberry do you have comprehension problems?

Yes, Blueberry, any service provider can make use of the exceptions. We can all read the Act.

They don’t because of being Stonewalled and shit scared of the TRA backlash.

Women are being gaslighted that of course service providers can use the exceptions because in practice they can’t.

Sometimes Twitter sums it up

@littlbrowndog

Sometimes Twitter sums it up

Is that Moley?

@TheAbbotOfUnreason

Yes, Blueberry, any service provider can make use of the exceptions. We can all read the Act.

They don’t because of being Stonewalled and shit scared of the TRA backlash.

Women are being gaslighted that of course service providers can use the exceptions because in practice they can’t.

The entire point of the TWAW mantra, 'Acceptance without Exception' and 'No Debate' was to achieve exactly that scenario, then add in Stonewall and it's penchant for telling Companies, et al that the Law is what Stonewall says it is rather then what it actually is and job done.