Girls with short hair being labelled as trans

[Sittinginthesand]

Even though they just wanted short hair.

So now they’ve nearly all got long hair. And if they want a shorter style they have to decide if they mind being questioned about whether they are trans or people assuming they are. Going for a short hair cut is almost like a ‘coming out’. So we’ve ended up with less diversity, less freedom, and more pressure to conform to stereotypes.

@NitroNine

The internet as a global means of group-finding certainly continued up to the late 2010’s: biggest subcultures were probably E-Girls (& E-Boys); VCSO girls; & hipsters (nature of hipster evolving between the Millennial & Gen-Z versions). Normcore was fairly short-lived. Maybe the Hypebeasts, though I’ve never been fully convinced that “being brand-obsessed & acquisitive” should really be considered a distinctive youth subculture

Now we’ve got Dark Academia (STG it’s mostly Potterheads trying to pretend they’re not into HP - oh & they’re Totally Grown Up); Goblincore (nature-focused with bonus!fairies & unnatural hair colours); Cottagecore (it’s all gone a bit “Little House on the Prairie”); WitchTok is bringing together The Youth much as “The Craft” did in the 1990s (but with some actual Wiccans & other grown-up Witches in the mix); & E-Girls/E-Boys have endured… THEN Scene/Emo Kids, Goths, Punks & the Grungers are all coming back.

However, the disparate groups are united by, essentially, a new religion - they, collectively, are a kind of Messiah, come to save the world (after previous generations have ruined it). They are the enlightened ones, accepting of all, alert to injustices, & challenging them whenever they see them (& deviation from the script = bigotry). They absolutely believe that if you tolerate any level of intolerance it will descend into fascism; & no-platforming is the only defence against that. Not all of them, obviously - & there are people older than them who have bought into many of the (very damaging, frankly) ideas that have been bundled together.

"They absolutely believe that if you tolerate any level of intolerance it will descend into fascism; & no-platforming is the only defence against that. Not all of them, obviously - & there are people older than them who have bought into many of the (very damaging, frankly) ideas that have been bundled together."

While as a humanist I understand we cannot tolerate the intolerable the irony about the current "woke" lot (stupid word, but it is what is used) is that they are the most fascist group of ideologues I have met outside of actual fascists.

Another DD with short hair and a preference for trousers for school here too. She quite often gets called lesbian which doesn't faze her. But she sagely commented to the lad saying it once, that's only an insult if you think being a lesbian is a bad thing. She's not been asked yet if she's trans or NB, although most of the girls she knows who have short hair are. Her school is quite conservative and I don't think this ideology has really taken off there. Teachers have occasionally called her a boy when they don't see her face (she's obviously female) but I think they're quite careful of what they say to pupils now.
I think she almost wants to be asked if she's NB so she can say no.

Both my sons have long hair, neither have been assumed to be trans. One is at hight school, one at primary. I wonder if there's more pressure and judgement on girls for this too.

God this is so sad, it really seems to be a step backwards doesn’t it. I remember short hair on girls being really cool in the 80s when I was at school, and there was more an ‘anything goes’ attitude. You’d assume each generation is more open minded and progressive than the last, but in terms of appearance anyway, that doesn’t seem to be the case.

Yep. 11yo DD with short hair was in bits a while back as classmates were asking her if she was lesbian or trans. She knows it's fine to be either but says she's not - she's a girl who likes her hair short.

My former secondary school is having an anniversary celebration this year and so the Facebook page is putting up old photos. The girls from the 1980s, 1990s - such a selection of hair styles! I drop DD off now and even curly hair is rare, it's all straightened and rarely even in a ponytail. DS has a ponytail though, and with a mask on and in baggy clothes often gets called a girl.

My kid has had cropped hair since she was 5 (only girl in the school not to have long hair). Her whole life she's been asked 'what are you' or assumed a boy. Unsurprisingly, given the current climate, she came to the conclusion that she can't therefore really be a girl. I cannot tell you how fucking angry I am that she has been manipulated like this. I'm working hard to help her accept her female body and that she is simply... herself.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/01/19/public-toilets-trans-bathroom-butch-lesbian-harassed-gender-critical-feminists/

"Eloise Stonborough, 32, is a cis woman who presents as butch – and she estimates she is challenged roughly every one in three times she uses a women’s public toilet."

Why no picture? Because obvious bollocks will be revealed as the obvious bollocks it is??

What is the point of your post pie?

As a child entering the toilets I would always be asked if I was a girl. The answer is simply to tell the truth.

You have posted an example of some getting upset. However, many of us have experienced ourselves during our life where we are asked.

In fact, I think Lauren Black’s way of dealing with this was superb!

Instead of being outraged, turn around and thank the questioner for protecting women and girls in a time of uncertainty.

Or… just get mad.

(Maybe get mad at the people who have caused the questioning in the first place. You know, those males who cannot respect the need for single SEX spaces).

This Eloise Stonborough who works for Stonewall (no agenda there) Pie?

www.seh.ox.ac.uk/people/eloise-stonborough

[quote Goatsaregreat]This Eloise Stonborough who works for Stonewall (no agenda there) Pie?

www.seh.ox.ac.uk/people/eloise-stonborough[/quote]
Ah, good work. That clarifies it a bit.

Tangentially related, but I was wondering what proportion of nb girls still shave their legs and armpits? I can imagine that even some nbs probably still feel social disapproval if they don't conform to certain beauty standards.

I wish we could just do away with gender altogether. While I believe your sex is mostly fixed, you should be able to express yourself however you want.

I’m surprised by these comments. I thought all young people these days liked to think of themselves as inclusive and tolerant, so why are people being asked if they are trans and given a hard time if they don’t fit the stereotypes? Seems they are not as tolerant as they like to portray.

Is it just the style of the time more than fear of being labelled trans the reason that women /girls have long hair? Yes, majority of girls have long straightened hair nowadays wheras in the 80s we all mostly had short hair. Fashions change. I loved my short hair. I last had short hair in about 1995 and when I had short hair people used to make lovely comments like I looked like a model. Far from being seen as boyish. Didn't get that with longer hair. I also had no hair followed by extremely short hair in 2011 when I lost it due to chemo. That was too short and not a choice so I've kept it long ever since. I would however one day like it in a short style again. I actually think short hair is very feminine and I would only think trans etc if a woman had hair cut in a traditionally male style.

The OP originally asked why do girls with short hair get labelled as trans? I think there is little individuality. And too many people who have opinion on how others present themselves. There is another thread today were a lady was denied a job for having a ponytail, a man accused of looking like a BNP supporter for having a shaved head (really? Perhaps he lost his hair through illnessor didn't fancy a Rab C Nesbit!)
A young girl fancies a short cut and the next thing you know they are supposed to be singing 'I am what I am'. I know when I complained about the bullying my daughter suffered the depty head winked at me and and said if these bigots think a girls school is a hotbed of heterosexuals they are barking up the wrong tree! A lovely person with a lady wife!

You're right and it's so sad. I've never known sexist stereotypes to be pushed so hard.

@MargaritaPie

www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/01/19/public-toilets-trans-bathroom-butch-lesbian-harassed-gender-critical-feminists/

"Eloise Stonborough, 32, is a cis woman who presents as butch – and she estimates she is challenged roughly every one in three times she uses a women’s public toilet."

Thanks (not) for the link to article underneath. You might have mentioned it. I really didn't want to read about that activity.

@BoozeSuitcase

If you don't have porn mermaid hair you're a dyke. Welcome to the 21st century!

Whilst the points being raised are interesting and potentially concerning calling long hair "porn mermaid hair" is just as unpleasant and judgemental.

You sound like the sort of person who used to sneer at me in the late 70s and early 80s.

@MargaritaPie

The giant pink elephant in that article is that TRAs are the ones who have created the situation that Ms Stonborough is complaining of.

The argument that transwomen have been using women's toilets unchallenged for decades is probably true. Not because they "passed" or that women didn't notice but because, for a variety of reasons (not least a fear of confrontation), women chose to turn a blind eye. Underpinning that was the assumption of good faith, that the TW really did "just want to pee" so were tolerated, possibly with a degree of pity for the poor, confused man.

So what changed?

Quite simply, good faith can no longer be assumed. The aggressiveness of TRAs and the growing number of violent and sexual offenders identifying as trans has seen to that. Women can't afford NOT to challenge someone who may be entering their space in BAD faith. That is unfortunate for women like Ms Stonborough but such vigilance protects not just her but her female friends and loved ones too.

It seems like there is a lot of pressure not to conform to gender stereotypes (like the let toys be toys campaign), and yet as soon as someone does deviate from a gender stereotype, off to the gender identity clinic they must go.

Let children be children.

Bbq - I don’t think it’s a FEAR of being labelled trans that restricts girls hair choices, it’s more that having a short cut has become a big deal - a statement, a symbol. Constantly having to explain that actually it’s just a haircut would be tedious rather than frightening, lots of girls don’t want that sort of attention.

Is this happening? That’s so bad

@HaroldMeeker

I noticed this in the early noughties. Every girl suddenly looked like Rachel from Friends. My school photos from the 80s show a mixture of hair styles and lengths. One girl had Robert Smith (Cure) hair, a fair few rocked perms (self included) of various lengths, some had crew cuts and we had one girl with a rockabilly quiff. The boys are just as hilarious, everything from mullets to a full on "flock of seagulls" hairspray extravaganza.

It took me far longer than it should to pock my 16 year old niece out in her class photo, from a sea of identikit gorgeous girls.

"It took me far longer than it should to pick my 16 year old niece out in her class photo, from a sea of identikit gorgeous girls." A sea of Instagram faces.