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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Girl Guides: Nottingham - senders of objection emails referred to Police

374 replies

mammajustkilledagnat · 19/01/2022 11:25

Anyone else seen this on Twitter? I mean, what the bloody hell?

twitter.com/MDayCassandra/status/1483731590232657922

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 19/01/2022 23:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

Gumbomambo · 19/01/2022 23:11

@LigandBrigand really good post. Thank you for sharing that. Safeguarding is there for a reason.

AgathaMystery · 19/01/2022 23:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Helleofabore · 19/01/2022 23:13

Third time lucky maybe?

So barley

If those small girls are NOT related in any way to that poster… still ok with you?

Just to be sure where you draw the line.

Maybe fourth time?

But the reality is, the lack of answer is just as important to note as the answer.

You have already told us you have no problem with a person who posts sexualised content publicly on social media, with inappropriate imagery of guns having a profile header of a line of small girls with their faces clearly shown (in fact even blanked out is problematic) with a photo of them in the bath imposed over it.

Related or not.

It is just good to clarify that this is what you believe.

And please just clarify again what safeguarding training you said you had on the previous thread. Just so we know where you opinion is being drawn from.

FrankBurnside · 19/01/2022 23:14

Why? Are we back to anyone who doesn't have a completely vanilla sexuality should never be allowed to work with kids again? What if she was going to a fancy dress party?

Back to? Vanilla? People that uphold safeguarding are vanilla? You really do highlight all that is wrong. Which is incredibly helpful for the lurkers. Keep going...

barleybadminton · 19/01/2022 23:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

barleybadminton · 19/01/2022 23:17

If those small girls are NOT related in any way to that poster… still ok with you?

I think if you are going to post pictures of other people's kids on your social media it's a good idea to ask the parents of those kids.

Given it appears to be a wedding then it seems very likely however they are related. Do you spend a lot of time trawling through facebook and worrying about whether people are related to the kids they post photos of themselves with?

Helleofabore · 19/01/2022 23:19

And there is another deflection and non answer.

I think after being asked four times your lack of answer and honesty is clear.

Sparple, sparple, sparple.

FrankBurnside · 19/01/2022 23:21

Do you spend a lot of time trawling through facebook and worrying about whether people are related to the kids they post photos of themselves with

Only when that person poses a potential safeguarding risk Smile

Justkeeppedaling · 19/01/2022 23:38

Is the person in question still in post? And still in Guiding?

Clymene · 19/01/2022 23:48

@Justkeeppedaling

Is the person in question still in post? And still in Guiding?
Yep - still there. They launched an internal enquiry in November but given that those were launched in the NUS when Jess Bradley was posting cock shots in the office and the NSPCC when James Makings posted about wanking at work in his rubber fetish gear and no outcomes or reports were ever published, I expect this enquiry to go the same way. Sulley will quietly go away and nothing will change.

www.girlguidingnottinghamshire.org.uk/who-we-are/meet-the-team/

swallowedAfly · 20/01/2022 00:42

*MS's photo, on a public site, posing in a short bondage type dress, brandishing a riding crop with the photo captioned: 'Now behave yourselves or Mistress will have to punish you', isnt explicitly sexual then?

Nothing to see here eh?*

How anyone can think oh yes that shows good judgement and a serious respect for safeguarding making this person perfectly fit for their role is bonkers.

I'm a teacher - I cannot imagine doing this and not expecting to end up with at the least a warning. Also it's a worry that someone in a safeguarding role puts these kind of things in places where they are accessible to the public - let alone someone who knows their appointment is controversial and has many people worried. How is the answer to that concern to post photos of yourself in bondage gear calling yourself mistress in clear sexual connotations? Come off it.

At the very least it shows incredibly poor judgement, a lack of professionalism and a disregard for the public image and reputation of the organisation you are meant to represent.

loopyapp · 20/01/2022 00:48

@barleybadminton

See here's the thing. You are being deliberately facetious and petty and it really diminishes absolutely everything you're saying. That and it is as obvious as the sun is yellow that you're trying to bait posters into saying something transphobic so you and @BlueberryCheezecake can have your "gotcha moment".

So for a moment let's step away from the GG leader with some, as you've admitted "questionable social media posts" and discuss something similar.

Imagine a biological woman in a senior role that holds massive safeguarding responsibility over a massive sea of young children. Not a celebrity who does occasional charity work but also relies on thirst trapping for their marketing. Bug a straight up run of the mill 50 odd year old biological female person with a high profile role in an organisation for children.

The liklihood of her posting sexually suggestive pictures (the boob shot and domme dress were most certainly captioned suggestively even IF you could somehow argue the content was not) is slim to non. It is simply outside the realms of behaviour most women would engage in. Especially in such a senior safeguarding role.

Now. For arguments sake let's say a biological woman DID post a shot hinting at a BDSM session, another offering more than the boobs on show and another toating a gun in a manner that I'm resolute on, is threatening and irresponsible.. she would be hung, drawn, quartered and sacked for the gross misconduct it is. Undoubtedly.

However. Someone from the new sacred caste does it and you minimise it and defend it as harmless bantz.

The bath shot. I agree dozens of women, regular women do this. I ask you why? Is it because it's a moderate, well balanced and sensible kind of selfie that reflects the seriousness of the sort of station that involved the safeguarding and Care of young girls? Or is it because its just risky enough to capture a particular type of attention whilst not showing enough to be overt?

Now. That slightly riske shot, of a person publicly and proudly displaying at least one (or two if we want to discuss paraphila) sexual deviance super imposed over a picture of young girls... is, when considered with the whole situation... odd.

Lastly. If tomorrow it was decided that anyone wishing to work in a school no longer needed a DBS check or any background check at all would that then make some existing staff a safeguarding risk? No. Of course not.

However. It would open schools to the sort of people that are a risk, who because the change in law can simply declare themselves "not a risk", are now eligible to work in a child rich environment.

Now imagine if that person had previously been known to be a risk however under the new rules they weren't even asked for fear of being called exclusionary. They must actually be given priority access to any jobs within schools above all else for fear of breaching their rights to identify as they wish.

Are all trans identified people predators ... ABSOLUTELY, UNEQUIVOCALLY NOT. Are some opportunistic offenders going to use and abuse the GRA to gain access to vulnerable women and children? OF COURSE THEY ARE!!

By their very nature they are opportunistic offenders. They actively look for a means and a way to access what they want.

So. We have a trans identified person who openly posts willfully and intended suggestive and overtly sexual pictures online and glorifies a violent sport (yes, it's a sport)

loopyapp · 20/01/2022 00:52

*posted too soon.

And you cannot, for one teeny second see the tiniest glimmer of safeguarding concern?

AgeOfReason99 · 20/01/2022 02:43

Here is the Girl Guiding email address to send your safeguarding concerns to.
[email protected]
Bombard them with more concerns than they can possibly deal with. I told them I will supply my address if needed, for the police visit.

RepentMotherfucker · 20/01/2022 07:48

@barleybadminton

Maybe you haven't seen any kids films lately?

Maybe you've never seen the original Batman series. Or the Powerpuff Girls which has a dominatrix character. Or Cats.

There are very few things in the world that return no results on google. But 'Powerpuff Girls Dominatrix' did for me!

I'm going wait for you to find me a film clip from one of those where a leather clad character offers to show us their tits.

I really hope you're not in charge of any children's viewing. And I'm completely sure you aren't in charge of any safeguarding since 'having a quiet word' (i.e. not formally recording concerns or actions) is about a big a safeguarding failure as you can make.

Carriemac · 20/01/2022 07:50

What is the advice if the police do come knocking on the door?

RepentMotherfucker · 20/01/2022 08:04

@Carriemac

What is the advice if the police do come knocking on the door?
Say nothing without a solicitor usually?

Or keep asking what crime you have committed over and over again until they go and do something more useful (literally anything).

PenStation · 20/01/2022 08:05

Agree with ppl who are posting about safeguarding concerns.

But also WTF are the police up to? There’s another thread where a crime has been committed and the OP has evidence of who it was but the police won’t act, yet they can follow up on emails expressing genuine concerns….Can anyone with police connections comment, I’d love to know what’s going on. There’s no public mandate for this shit.

RepentMotherfucker · 20/01/2022 08:14

@PenStation

Agree with ppl who are posting about safeguarding concerns.

But also WTF are the police up to? There’s another thread where a crime has been committed and the OP has evidence of who it was but the police won’t act, yet they can follow up on emails expressing genuine concerns….Can anyone with police connections comment, I’d love to know what’s going on. There’s no public mandate for this shit.

I know - I had that one in mind. Page after page of people saying 'yeah, I had their name and address, police weren't interested'!
KatieAlcock · 20/01/2022 08:27

I would still really appreciate a PM from anyone with more information @EishetChayil

flippertyop · 20/01/2022 08:29

If more parents removed their kids from guides it would have an impact. That's the only way. I'm sure a lot of them aren't even aware of this

CuntAmongstThePigeons · 20/01/2022 08:35

Wow, just catching up with this. I see we're discussing the gg leader again. Absolutely gobsmacked that anyone is trying to argue those photos and behaviour aren't wholly inappropriate.

The thing that goes to show really how odd it is. Is if you wanted to post risqué and sexual photos online, you're perfectly within your rights to do so, just make sure they are in no way connected to the charity work you do with young children. If you cannot do that, then you shouldn't be in that role as it's beyond inappropriate.

I know soooooo many people with 2 Instagram or fb, a risqué one and a work one. Why would you know do that unless the point of it IS being risqué and sexual in an environment around children. Its surely grooming parents and children to accept inappropriate behaviours? Or as barley and cheeze say, it's all perfectly innocent and just needs a quiet word. In that case needs to be away from any kind of leadership role here as obviously needs retraining in safeguarding and being appropriate around young children.

Datun · 20/01/2022 08:45

[quote loopyapp]@barleybadminton

See here's the thing. You are being deliberately facetious and petty and it really diminishes absolutely everything you're saying. That and it is as obvious as the sun is yellow that you're trying to bait posters into saying something transphobic so you and @BlueberryCheezecake can have your "gotcha moment".

So for a moment let's step away from the GG leader with some, as you've admitted "questionable social media posts" and discuss something similar.

Imagine a biological woman in a senior role that holds massive safeguarding responsibility over a massive sea of young children. Not a celebrity who does occasional charity work but also relies on thirst trapping for their marketing. Bug a straight up run of the mill 50 odd year old biological female person with a high profile role in an organisation for children.

The liklihood of her posting sexually suggestive pictures (the boob shot and domme dress were most certainly captioned suggestively even IF you could somehow argue the content was not) is slim to non. It is simply outside the realms of behaviour most women would engage in. Especially in such a senior safeguarding role.

Now. For arguments sake let's say a biological woman DID post a shot hinting at a BDSM session, another offering more than the boobs on show and another toating a gun in a manner that I'm resolute on, is threatening and irresponsible.. she would be hung, drawn, quartered and sacked for the gross misconduct it is. Undoubtedly.

However. Someone from the new sacred caste does it and you minimise it and defend it as harmless bantz.

The bath shot. I agree dozens of women, regular women do this. I ask you why? Is it because it's a moderate, well balanced and sensible kind of selfie that reflects the seriousness of the sort of station that involved the safeguarding and Care of young girls? Or is it because its just risky enough to capture a particular type of attention whilst not showing enough to be overt?

Now. That slightly riske shot, of a person publicly and proudly displaying at least one (or two if we want to discuss paraphila) sexual deviance super imposed over a picture of young girls... is, when considered with the whole situation... odd.

Lastly. If tomorrow it was decided that anyone wishing to work in a school no longer needed a DBS check or any background check at all would that then make some existing staff a safeguarding risk? No. Of course not.

However. It would open schools to the sort of people that are a risk, who because the change in law can simply declare themselves "not a risk", are now eligible to work in a child rich environment.

Now imagine if that person had previously been known to be a risk however under the new rules they weren't even asked for fear of being called exclusionary. They must actually be given priority access to any jobs within schools above all else for fear of breaching their rights to identify as they wish.

Are all trans identified people predators ... ABSOLUTELY, UNEQUIVOCALLY NOT. Are some opportunistic offenders going to use and abuse the GRA to gain access to vulnerable women and children? OF COURSE THEY ARE!!

By their very nature they are opportunistic offenders. They actively look for a means and a way to access what they want.

So. We have a trans identified person who openly posts willfully and intended suggestive and overtly sexual pictures online and glorifies a violent sport (yes, it's a sport)[/quote]
And you cannot, for one teeny second see the tiniest glimmer of safeguarding concern?

Course they can.

But it's dealt with by 'having a quite word'.

Job done.

'Quiet words' that well known solution to safeguarding violation.