Michael Phelps believes in an even playing field

[DoYouSeaWhatISea]

Michael Phelps speaks to Christiane Amanpour CNN, and says that he believes in an even playing field, when asked about Lia Thomas, of Penn womens swim team.

Of course, P News interprets that as ironic because, erm, Michael has long arms.

I’d say if anyone understands competitive sport and fairness, it’s Phelps. I’ve liked him for a decade, and more so today.

Maybe someone clever than me could post an archive link to the PNews article, for those that don’t want to click. TIA.

nypost.com/2022/01/17/michael-phelps-ncaas-lia-thomas-controversy-very-complicated/

www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/01/18/lia-thomas-michael-phelps-university-pennsylvania/

@Justkeeppedaling

Much as I hate the idea off men in women's sport, it's not a level playing field generally speaking, is it?

I'm 5'2". I'm never going to win the high jump or a sprint or anything else.

To be truly fair, we should categorise by height, weight, arm length etc to make sure everyone has a fair chance - a bit like they do in the Paralympics.

Random Google, feel free to look for other info.

'of the world-class sprinters were in the height range of 1.68-1.91 m (men) or 1.52-1.82 cm (women).'

I'm 5 2 and think that's 1. 6 metres more or less.

Sprinting is about power. Compact explosive power.

I looked it up because first thought, can't imagine tall is big advantage sprinters, they more about power than stride length.

So... You're just guessing stuff then?

Why not run in local /general things?

Fun, good for you, you would enjoy.

Why only winning at proper competitive level of interest?

@Justkeeppedaling

*So are you suggesting weight categories, plus arm length categories, height categories etc etc for every sport and every event? The Olympics would last 2 months instead of 2 weeks*

Not really, because it's obviously not possible. But I might be a v v fast runner, faster than any other 5'2" high woman, but there's no medal for that.
There is no competition where short women can race against short women, but there are completions for, say, the over 40s, people with one leg or whatever.

The third fastest and sixth fastest female 100m sprinters of all time are under 5ft 2 so it would be a very tough race for you?

Over 40s one leg etc.

That's something to feel resentful about? People with one leg, according to you, having plenty options sport?

I'm sorry you feel excluded.

Would it make you feel better to know. That I was born with physical defect that meant loads of time in hosp secondary age. Lots of pain, recovery, back to surgery?

Adding up to months in children's hosp.

And I for 30 years looked and looked to find things I could do. For exercise. Joining in.

Nada.

Even in hosp physio inpatient I was in with hip replacement patients average age 75 when I was 14. Lovely women but the exercises were not appropriate for a 14yo.

Been told kindly and unkindly that NO this isn't for you. So many times.

You think people with disabilities are widely catered to in sport/fitness?

You have no idea.

I hope that sets your mind at rest. I'm guessing you will feel happier for hearing that.

I wish Phelps had said more, but anything but unequivocal support for transwomen in women's sports risks a crazy mob of accusations so I can't be too angry with him.

Also, anyone who watches mens swimming knows Phelps has lost major races to other top male swimmers - Ryan Lochte for one (both Lochte and Phelps broke records). And when Phelps has won, his top competitors have been fractions of seconds behind him. Dressel has times that Phelps has never made. In an Olympic race Phelps would never have been able to coast and then take the lead at the last second like Lia did nor would he have EVER been 40 full seconds ahead of any top male swimmer, barring one of them getting a cramp or something. Phelps is a phenomenal human swimmer but he has close company with other top male swimmers.

I find the references to Phelps somewhat annoying, as they tend to focus on his bodily differences whilst ignoring that he was an amazing athlete that trained hard and whose records are being broken.

Whilst Lea Thomas has already said that whilst transitioning she didn't and doesn't train as hard as she used when swimming for the male team.

With the sports issue I always start by asking, who is the fastest man in the world? Everyone knows, Usain Bolt. But who is the female equivalent?

Florence Griffiths Joiner holds the world record for both the 100m and 200m, just like bolt, but despite the fact she was an absolute legend in the 1980s most people I ask cannot name her. They have forgotten her.

Why?

Because Usain Bolt, the fastest man, is also the fastest PERSON ever. FloJo isn't even in the top 500 fastest PEOPLE ever; why would anyone care about the 500th fastest person? Or the 250th seeded tennis player? Or the 700th strongest PERSON in the world, or the 400th highest jumper in the world?

That's why women need their own sports, and why they need to be FAIR....

One of the reasons Flo Jo’s athletic achievements and records are not celebrated is the doping controversy that surrounded those records, sadly.

I wish Phelps had said more, but anything but unequivocal support for transwomen in women's sports risks a crazy mob of accusations so I can't be too angry with him.

I suspect this is him dipping his toe in the water. I have no doubt he has more to say and will get braver as time goes on.

Phelps has good physiology for a swimmmer but he also trained harder than everyone else. For five years he did not take a single day off - not birthdays, weekends, Christmas. And then, he was only a few seconds faster than the next best male.

www.yourswimlog.com/5-things-michael-phelps-taught-swimming-success-life/amp/

I'm nearly 6ft. Height is a benefit in some sports but not all - gymnastics and judo for example.
Put me toe to toe with a man of identical height, weight, arm and leg length and he would always win because of muscle strength and testosterone. Men have an athletic advantage over women. Why are we having to spell out something so bleeding obvious?

In all sports men exceed women's records by at the very least 9%, a difference that not even the female East German testosterone fuelled swimmers could emulate against the likes of Sharron Davies.
There is nothing complicated about it. Males competing against females is unfair. So if you want to include male people who identify as women into the female category be honest and say that validating these male people's sense of self is more important than fair competition for /safety of female athletes. Own it!
Moreover, the reason that athletes like Caster are banned from certain events is because they all have VSD conditions which are only present in human males.

Michael Phelps has ADHD, which makes his achievements even more impressive.

Also, anyone who watches mens swimming knows Phelps has lost major races to other top male swimmers - Ryan Lochte for one (both Lochte and Phelps broke records). And when Phelps has won, his top competitors have been fractions of seconds behind him. Dressel has times that Phelps has never made. In an Olympic race Phelps would never have been able to coast and then take the lead at the last second like Lia did nor would he have EVER been 40 full seconds ahead of any top male swimmer, barring one of them getting a cramp or something. Phelps is a phenomenal human swimmer but he has close company with other top male swimmers.

This!

@Bonhex

I'm nearly 6ft. Height is a benefit in some sports but not all - gymnastics and judo for example. Put me toe to toe with a man of identical height, weight, arm and leg length and he would always win because of muscle strength and testosterone. Men have an athletic advantage over women. Why are we having to spell out something so bleeding obvious?

We have to spell out the bleeding obvious is because telling lies about changing sex has become the norm with dodgy individuals / groups being given an influential voice that should never have been allowed .

Yes, the only world record Phelps still holds is the 400m IM. Others have swum faster than him with their “normal” arms . His time is 1.34 seconds faster than the next best time, by Ryan Lochte, a difference of around 0.5%. Phelps time is almost 23 seconds faster than Katinka Hosszú’s world record for women, a different of almost 10%.

Phelps’s long arms didn’t make him exceptional among men, he just managed to maintain that difference of 0.5-1% over his rivals consistently over a period of time through dedication, training and technical ability (anyone who knows anything about swimming knows a lot of the difference of 1.34s in 400IM can be in the very technical turns).

23 seconds in 400IM is probably an entire 50m length.

Getting this out again with a sense of weariness….

“I believe that we all should feel comfortable with who we are in our own skin, but I think sports should all be played on an even playing field,” he said. “I don’t know what it looks like in the future. It’s hard. It’s very complicated and this is my sport, this has been my sport my whole entire career, and honestly the one thing I would love is everybody being able to compete on an even playing field.”

It’s not complicated though, Michael. It’s not complicated at all.

Men compete in men’s sports, women compete in women’s sports.

So very, very simple, just as it was simple when women couldn’t compete in the Olympics, when Kathrine Switzer was manhandled off the course at the Boston Marathon, when the Football Association banned women from playing at its grounds for decades. Everyone knew who those rules applied to, and they didn’t apply to anyone sharing Thomas’s characteristics.

It’s still simple when it comes to which sex’s sports attract the lions share of the sponsorship, the athlete support and the coverage.

No XY in XX sports. Hurt feelings may well ensue, but the alternative is the wholesale destruction of pretty much everything that women have achieved in sporting terms over the last century, so my response to the hurt feelings is a shrug.

When Phelps says “it’s complicated”, what he means is “I would be pilloried from here to eternity if I said what is self evident to me, you and everyone with eyes so I am going to fudge my answer and hope the whole thing goes away without my having to get involved”.

Yeah, that’s more complicated.

I am so tired and bored of the witless sophistry brought to bear on this very simple issue. Sports are categorised according to sex and gender identity is entirely irrelevant.

Recategorise the mens events as open, make men fucking budge up for once and stop shitting on women. Normalise seeing MTF trans people in mens events. Now that would be progressive.

@Sophoclesthefox

I am so tired and bored of the witless sophistry brought to bear on this very simple issue. Sports are categorised according to sex and gender identity is entirely irrelevant.

Recategorise the mens events as open, make men fucking budge up for once and stop shitting on women. Normalise seeing MTF trans people in mens events. Now that would be progressive.

This^

And no, it is not complicited at all in one sense. But navigating the sponsorship deals with what is deemed a hateful opinion is and for that I do have sympathy.

And yet, imagine if that suppression power was removed and everyone spoke freely?

@MaryGubbins

I’m maybe wrong but I thought caster was believed to have xy chromosomes? Hence the limit?

I mean if you go by their nonsense categorisation of gender system, if caster was “assigned” female at birth (due to having a dsd) and publicly “identifies” as a woman, by (the ideological) definition they are a “cis” woman. Facts aren’t important in 2022.

From the article - the female team have to make anonymous comments:

"She laughs about it and mocks the situation. Instead of caring or showing that she cares about what she's doing or what she's doing to her teammates, she's not sympathetic or empathetic at all. Lia never addressed our team. She never asked if it was OK. She never asked how we felt. She never tried to explain how she feels. She never has said anything to us as a group. She never addressed anything.'

This is the heart of it isn't it? Toxic entitlement and narcissism. This is just so sad, it goes way beyond frustration and unfairness to the effect on their own self esteem.

*on girls own self esteem

It has been proposed that Caster has the DSD 5ARD which affects males.

I would suspect that IPSO guidelines would restrict what could be said about Caster. But Penis News has been known to lie and iirc they don’t need to even worry about those guidelines anyway. However, Caster is ‘cis’ female without the revision of history. They ‘were’ assigned female at birth and competed as a female.

Although I hate the term ‘cis’, this is probably one case that it correctly applies - considering ‘assigned at birth’ is a term used appropriately here.

The implication here though from Penis News is more to mislead readers though. Because Caster knows very well what sex they are. Penis News is dealing a sleight of hand here.

I'm not even slightly sporty & never was, but all this 'it's complicated' really annoys me too. Judy Murray said it the other day, now Michael Phelps. I suspect they think it's a gentler way of putting their disagreement. It's not remotely complicated. In fact, it's very straightforward.