Why the ploppers plop and the sealions bark?

[JellySaurus]

When we ask questions relating to any aspect of trans ideology, ploppers and sealions accuse us of echo-chamber transphobia etc. we always invite them to answer our questions themselves, but they never do. We generally understand this to mean that this is because they cannot answer the question.

Maybe it's because they cannot ask it.

I was brought up in a tradition of asking questions. My dad always says that the most important word is "Why?" Yet in the wider world I regularly come up against shock that I should even query something, and I hear statements like "You cannot ask that!"

Maybe the first thing that TRAs, and all those immersed in the ideology, internalise and completely buy into is not TWAW, but No Debate. Maybe they cannot answer our questions because they cannot understand them. Because they do not understand that they are allowed to question.

Are we still countering No Debate?

@bishophaha

Eel - if I'm not mistaken - has been on here for years. They have claimed a few times that they are leaving FWR, because it is awful and an echo chamber and people are mean, but they are always - always - back, mainly to post about how awful FWR is and how it's an echo chamber and 'lol wut' or 'whatever' in lieu of answering a direct question.

Eel has refused to say whether they think same-sex attraction is valid and ok.
They say they have a womanly feeling that they'd have whatever sex they were and believes we all have something similar but refused to engage or even attempt to describe what this 'feeling' is and why it should take priority over physical sex.

Eel gets very muddled when pressed and tries to redirect the conversation into how awful FWR is etc.
I believe Eel has been asked several times over the years 'what is a woman' and won't or can't answer coherently.

This is not meant to be a character assassination or anything but an observation of how one person can keep coming in to a place they decry as awful and try to derail conversation.

Having observed this for multiple years I think the only conclusion that can be drawn is that they are not posting in good faith and not interested in debating the issues. To me the thing that stands out is they have no interest in even asking themselves why they can't answer any of these questions. You can't be that sure of your own position if you can't question it yourself.

Apols if I have the wrong person!!

There were a couple of threads, quite a few years ago now, which ran to hundreds and hundreds of posts, where eventually Eels answer to how they know they are a woman was I just do.

That was it.

Yes Datun I think I'm thinking of the same one. No curiosity in exploring it - just 'well I do'.

Yes Datun. Eels has stated many times that they are a woman but also feel like a woman. But can't explain how.

Eel has refused to say whether they think same-sex attraction is valid and ok.
No, I haven't, you must be mixing me up with someone else?
Of course it's valid and OK.

You're back - Eel, what is a woman?

My partner has just read this out to me and I couldn't not share it.

The next James Bond is going to be a man but will transition during the film. It's title will be Cocktopussy.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

Eel has refused to say whether they think same-sex attraction is valid and ok. No, I haven't, you must be mixing me up with someone else? Of course it's valid and OK.

I'm fairly sure there was a time and context where you ducked that question. Good to know you clear the very low bar of not being overtly homophobic though!

What is a lesbian? Do you think a person's sex matters when considering a partner or is that a genital fetish?

I am just waiting for the thread to turn to fake tans.

I'm fairly sure there was a time and context where you ducked that question
Think you must be thinking of someone else, wasn't me.

OK, so what is a woman? Please don't duck this one!

@EeeICouldRipATissue

I'm fairly sure there was a time and context where you ducked that question Think you must be thinking of someone else, wasn't me.

The poster I'm thinking of did exactly what you are doing - picking one line of a post to answer (that is about posting on fwr) and ducking the main question. You say you think lesbians are valid but clearly if you can't say what one is, that is meaningless. And fairly insulting.

Quack….

🦆🦆

God, I love watching mra types tying themselves in knots. The really fun part is working out whether the knot is an attempt to avoid questions (yes, always), fog the discussions (yes, always), stop themselves from looking stupid (no, never works) and apply manipulation and tantrums to get what they want (yes, always). It's the highlight of each post they're on, for me.

I do like the live ongoing demonstration of the thread title

Been thinking recently that for a lot of MRAs who visit this site (not all obv), it's just another 'kink'. They got off on arguing with women.

@Mollyollydolly

Been thinking recently that for a lot of MRAs who visit this site (not all obv), it's just another 'kink'. They got off on arguing with women.

Totally. It's a turn on.

Been thinking recently that for a lot of MRAs who visit this site (not all obv), it's just another 'kink'. They got off on arguing with women.

Yes! Particularly if they can gloat about our lack of power and the fact that our boundaries are ignored.

I'm fairly sure there was a time and context where you ducked that question
Think you must be thinking of someone else, wasn't me.

@EeeICouldRipATissue Perhaps you could stop ducking the 'What is a woman?' question then.

While I really appreciate that bad faith posters like you do a brilliant job of increasing opposition to self ID it would be interesting to have a constructive discussion for once. You could even start another thread and try to persuade people using actual arguments.

Been thinking recently that for a lot of MRAs who visit this site (not all obv), it's just another 'kink'. They got off on arguing with women.

I think there is a lot of truth to that- though not always sexual, it's often just attention.

Still, I love 'em. Just imagine how easily self ID would have passed if they could keep their gobs shut. I freely admit that in the early days I didn't think anyone could believe (for example) that rapists should be put in women's prisons if they say the magic words or that having women's sport is discriminatory.

I know! It was one of these who peaked my very kind, very young sister only last week. On twitter. Someone posted ten times dodging a question instead of just answering for better or worse, she rang me up going Errr maybe you've a point, you big terf...

A couple of posters doing the same thing on an AIBU thread dragged me part of the way up the mountain and got me spending more time in GWR and less time on car parking threads.

I've forgotten the name of one, but the other was @LemonadeandDaisychains

I think it was the ablist prejudices voiced in the thread which she refused to acknowledge because it was politically inconvenient that made me start paying closer attention to the debate as a whole. Up until then, I'd thought it was a clash of ideas between people who were all basically decent and well-meaning on both sides.