Why the ploppers plop and the sealions bark?

[JellySaurus]

When we ask questions relating to any aspect of trans ideology, ploppers and sealions accuse us of echo-chamber transphobia etc. we always invite them to answer our questions themselves, but they never do. We generally understand this to mean that this is because they cannot answer the question.

Maybe it's because they cannot ask it.

I was brought up in a tradition of asking questions. My dad always says that the most important word is "Why?" Yet in the wider world I regularly come up against shock that I should even query something, and I hear statements like "You cannot ask that!"

Maybe the first thing that TRAs, and all those immersed in the ideology, internalise and completely buy into is not TWAW, but No Debate. Maybe they cannot answer our questions because they cannot understand them. Because they do not understand that they are allowed to question.

Are we still countering No Debate?

Can someone please explain what gender identity is?

In exact terms that can allow it to be codified into Law and allows for safeguards to be applied where required, and the ability for those who do not possess or believe in the concept to be protected.

@EeeICouldRipATissue

We always invite them to answer our questions themselves, but they never do Bullshit. They are answered, a lot. It's just if you don't like the answer, you pretend it hasn't been answered and just dismiss and ask the question again on loop until it has been answered '' right. ''

No. We never get an answer. We get verbiage. Word soup. Often a circular sentence, self referencing, trite. But never, ever one based in reality , never anything that, when read aloud, makes any sense whatsoever.

Come on @EeeICouldRipATissue your turn. I won't ask the ones about feelings. I will bearely even touch upon science. I just want to know the specific information you, you personally, use to make your decisions. What do you read and hear that shapes your beliefs?

What did JKR actually say? Which specific part was transphobic?

Is it right and fair that any male bodied person should take part on womens sport? If yes, how do you justify that choice?

Just those two for now. When you have answered I will give my own answers. We can compare and contrast, debate who has shown critical thinking, what our evidence bases are, etc.

THAT is why we keep asking.

That is the information we NEVER get.

YOU personally could be groundbreaking....

I’ve been here a while and I’ve never got a decent answer to the question of “what is a woman”. I’ve had people say “a woman is anyone who says they are a woman”, which is obviously unsatisfactory as an answer because it’s self referential and leaves “woman” undefined. I have literally NEVER encountered a poster who clarified what they mean by “woman”. At that point they usually say stuff like “you know exactly what I mean” or “you’re not asking this in good faith” or “it’s complicated, that’s the best answer I can give.” Very very rarely a poster will define woman in more substantive terms and will say something like “I’m a woman because I like long hair and dresses and being soft, warm and dainty” (a real answer by the way.) In that case I’m grateful they’ve given a proper definition that I can work with, but they don’t like to stick around to defend their view when I point out that it’s sexist and doesn’t include me - as I don’t have long hair or wear dresses and I’m not dainty. So to be pedantic, people do answer the questions but the answers are usually half baked or just bizarre. I’ve never had someone adequately explain to me what the new defitnion of woman is, detached from female biology, that captures both myself and kaitlin Jenner (for example). And I’ve never had anyone explain to me why the concept of woman even needs to be detached from biology in the first place and why this “gendered” concept must dominate legally and politically now instead. It’s not a very big ask especially considering the trans side literally want to make their definition the law.

I always bet myself which threads they will or won’t appear on. If it’s an MM or JKR thread you can usually bet one or two will have a little flop. If it’s a thread requesting help or thoughts regarding a young teen and parent asking for info to research, we usually get a couple of splashes to say we are all bitches and there won’t be any help from us. If it’s a thread on sports, prisons, Karen White or any kind of criminality nothing at all. Silence.

What does living as a woman actually mean? I think Arabella has been out on a folding chair, warming her hands over a brazier and waiting for an answer for that one for a very long time.

I'm knitting Arabella mittens. I'll likely finish the mittens before we get an answer!

I’ve never had someone adequately explain to me what the new defitnion of woman is, detached from female biology, that captures both myself and kaitlin Jenner (for example). And I’ve never had anyone explain to me why the concept of woman even needs to be detached from biology in the first place and why this “gendered” concept must dominate legally and politically now instead.

And yet despite the detachment from female biology all of a sudden one 'type' of women must be described by their biological functions in order to differentiate them from the other type who don't possess those biological functions and must never be described by their biological functions. Odd that.

WeeBisom a poster once put forward the notion of socially a woman whatever the fuck that means and they seemed to believe that was enough to change laws and safeguarding protocols.

And yet @VestofAbsurdity simultaneously those same people berate us female kind of women, for reducing 'woman' to sex parts.

That's having a cake and eating it...

.. and still retaining its ingredients for a second bake.

Someone on this board once posted a link to an article about crony beliefs - these are beliefs that serve a purpose to advertise our allegiance to a particular group, rather than help us create a realistic model of the world we live in. We need to shout them loudly, but they must never be questioned.

meltingasphalt.com/crony-beliefs/

The echo chamber thing always makes me think of Little Sir Echo (she says, helpfully - though in fairness, it’s probably about as constructive a contribution as denouncing the space as an echo chamber & then exiting as that coo-eee reverberates…)

Eeel I have some for you too! I’ve asked many times why it’s not ok for a white person to identify as a black person simply because that’s how they feel, but it is ok for a man to decide he’s a woman. Both situations involve physical attributes and people who have those physical attributes being discriminated against because of them. Yet you can simply not have this e attributes yet claim to be a member of that class - if it’s a sex class. But not if it’s a race. Even though race actually is a spectrum and hard to define, and sex isn’t.

Why is the one ok and not the other? I’ve been waiting approx 6 years since I first asked this. No one has ever even attempted an answer, let alone given a good one. Fire away.

Also if people can be gender “fluid” how are you supposed to know that someone who identifies as the opposite sex is going to stick to that and not change their mind so is suitable for surgery?

Also if brain scans show that trans people have different brains that are like those of their desired “gender” then why would you support self-ID? You wouldn’t want predators pretending to be trans and giving trans people a bad name, or teens getting surgery when they’re “not really trans” and regretting it - would you? So why aren’t you calling for brain scans instead of self ID?

Waiting.

ooh, did I get wind that @EeeICouldRipATissue is here to answer questions?

I'd love an answer to what 'living as a woman means'. if you could give some examples of this activity that would be most helpful.

[quote Nellodee]Someone on this board once posted a link to an article about crony beliefs - these are beliefs that serve a purpose to advertise our allegiance to a particular group, rather than help us create a realistic model of the world we live in. We need to shout them loudly, but they must never be questioned.

meltingasphalt.com/crony-beliefs/[/quote]

they must never be questioned.

Exactly.

To be fair to the ploppers, there are a fair few of our monitors who are unfortunately banned from MN for being unable to post within the talk guidelines - you know, being civil and stuff.

One of our monitors tried to tell me once that they 'navigate the world as a woman' before being booted for being a PBP. It's obviously bollocks though, we all know women can't read maps and therefore can't navigate shit.

Eeel demonstrating plopper effect well on the thread I see.

Reading these threads watching for the ploppers is the nearest thing o have to a hobby.
I’m going to start some crochet AS WELL because I can multitask because I am a woman.

Also crocheting is a laydee thing. And I’m wearing a housecoat.

I'd love a housecoat. They seem very "proper".

Personally I could embrace the 1930s/1940s “housedress” - the relationship of which to the housecoat l’m not entirely clear on (evolving use language/2 nations divided by common language etc) but the early iterations as pictured in that blog are gorgeous.

Are we allowed to ask about fake tans as well?

Gosh, that was a beeyootiful demonstration of "plop and run" Eels.
I have a genyoowine tear in my eye at the breathtaking gorgeousness of it all.

Now. About those answers you promised.....

We got an answer over the past few days on GBTV on what a woman was. As defined by this trans activist.

Tom Harwood:

"My definition of a woman is what society would generally see as a woman. So, I think that the experience of women tends to be the case that is someone is walking down the street, right, and gets cat called, that person is seen by society as a woman. Many people experience that."

I have not seen many other trans activists call this steaming pile out, so they must all agree. Although, if anyone can post links to trans activists calling out this definition, I would be happy to retract.

I have not seen many other trans activists call this steaming pile out, so they must all agree.

the clue is here:

on GBTV

more people would have seen it if you had put a postcard in a phone box.

@WarriorN

Eeel demonstrating plopper effect well on the thread I see.

That's a fucking plant surely?? Otherwise surely the ironymeter is overheating?

Quite possibly Serendipity. But the clip has been well circulated via Twitter and you can be assured that the prominent trans activists there have seen it.

ie. I acknowledge that it probably got more views from twitter than from the broadcast.

@Helleofabore

We got an answer over the past few days on GBTV on what a woman was. As defined by this trans activist.

Tom Harwood:

"My definition of a woman is what society would generally see as a woman. So, I think that the experience of women tends to be the case that is someone is walking down the street, right, and gets cat called, that person is seen by society as a woman. Many people experience that."

I have not seen many other trans activists call this steaming pile out, so they must all agree. Although, if anyone can post links to trans activists calling out this definition, I would be happy to retract.

So once again we are defined by how men see us- here as sex objects. What fun.