Screw C4 drama

[SceneDrama]

Prison drama. Trans man inmate storyline. Actor that plays Trans man inmate 'passes' and I doubt anyone would have noticed unless they recognised Riley from East Ender's. I thought this was interesting and wondered whether their trans status would be made an issue or whether Riley would just be allowed to be a male character.

But no. The 'trans' aspect of this character was focussed upon and there was some very, very heavy-handed, clunky, shoe- horned dialogue. A female prison officer lecturing another prison officer about 'gender' and how a male person can be born into 'the wrong body'.Lots of eyerolling towards people struggling to feel comfortable with a female-born person being incarcerated in a male prison.

And the pivotal scene was the character being pumelled by the prison's 'hardman' in a locked prison cell and 'handling' it and therefore being the 'man' they truly were. I think it was supposed to be a 'feel good' moment.

All I thought was that in reality, that transman would have been slaughtered and downed by the first punch from the hard man who was 3 times the size of the Trans man. And I thought - is this really the issue in prisons at the moment? That we shouldn't be discriminatory and should be housing transmen in male prisons?

Aren't we missing the real issue with prisons - that male bodied people are being housed in women's prisons?

And am I missing something here - should we be campaigning for trans men to be housed in men's prisons? Is there a ground swell of opinion for this to happen?

Or is this just obfuscation and a bad, bad, drama? Riley was a great actor BTW but I really wonder whether Riley would truly feel happy about being in a prison cell with the hard man who was three times their size. I doubt that in real life they'd walk away with just a bloodied nose.

All I thought was that in reality, that transman would have been slaughtered and downed by the first punch from the hard man who was 3 times the size of the Trans man.

It was ridiculous, there's no way he'd be getting back up after that beating.

Channel 4 have form for this. There was a TW in Hollyoaks, in prison for murder, getting beat up and IIRC hospitalised by some women. Right after the judgement for the MoJ judicial review, brought by a woman sexually assaulted by a male prisoner in a female prison..

To be fair to them, the timing was coincidental with that one as soaps are filmed months in advance. They can still piss off with their propaganda, though.

You know, with numerous programs and films like Buffy and the Marvel movies I think that people have come to believe that women are just as strong as men. As women are less routinely assaulted these days (a very good thing) there is little to remind them of just how vulnerable they are. I truley hope these women live their lives without ever encountering the reality of male physical violence but their naivety is a hindrance to safeguarding women and girls in general and they are useful allies to MRAs..

@Apollo441

You know, with numerous programs and films like Buffy and the Marvel movies I think that people have come to believe that women are just as strong as men. As women are less routinely assaulted these days (a very good thing) there is little to remind them of just how vulnerable they are. I truley hope these women live their lives without ever encountering the reality of male physical violence but their naivety is a hindrance to safeguarding women and girls in general and they are useful allies to MRAs..

Agree! I made this comment once to a friend who complimented my DD who is rather athletic. I said, "I worry for her when she takes the bus alone." And my friend, a woman, said in all sincerity, "DD is stronger than most men. She'll hold her own like Superwoman." I love seeing women fighters in dramas but we do seem to forget the power of a man's punch.

Yes, it's not just films and assaults, it's the lack of physical labour for many people.

If you are doing heavy work quite often with mixed groups, you very quickly see that men are stronger. It's not even just a lot of men, it is most men are a good deal stronger than most women. But get a mixed group doing something like woods work, or shoveling buckets of gravel, etc, it becomes clear fast that even fairly unfit men are often a lot stronger than many fit women.

Not seen it.

It's about a transman in a men's prison?

Is that right?

But transmen are always in women's prisons due to the massive risk to them.

????

@SceneDrama

Prison drama. Trans man inmate storyline. Actor that plays Trans man inmate 'passes' and I doubt anyone would have noticed unless they recognised Riley from East Ender's. I thought this was interesting and wondered whether their trans status would be made an issue or whether Riley would just be allowed to be a male character.

But no. The 'trans' aspect of this character was focussed upon and there was some very, very heavy-handed, clunky, shoe- horned dialogue. A female prison officer lecturing another prison officer about 'gender' and how a male person can be born into 'the wrong body'.Lots of eyerolling towards people struggling to feel comfortable with a female-born person being incarcerated in a male prison.

And the pivotal scene was the character being pumelled by the prison's 'hardman' in a locked prison cell and 'handling' it and therefore being the 'man' they truly were. I think it was supposed to be a 'feel good' moment.

All I thought was that in reality, that transman would have been slaughtered and downed by the first punch from the hard man who was 3 times the size of the Trans man. And I thought - is this really the issue in prisons at the moment? That we shouldn't be discriminatory and should be housing transmen in male prisons?

Aren't we missing the real issue with prisons - that male bodied people are being housed in women's prisons?

And am I missing something here - should we be campaigning for trans men to be housed in men's prisons? Is there a ground swell of opinion for this to happen?

Or is this just obfuscation and a bad, bad, drama? Riley was a great actor BTW but I really wonder whether Riley would truly feel happy about being in a prison cell with the hard man who was three times their size. I doubt that in real life they'd walk away with just a bloodied nose.

This is exactly how I felt watching it.

And the "Oh no! I am being made to go a woman's prison noooooo " made me eye roll so hard because in reality youd be fucking delighted not to be getting raped and beaten to escape and be put with a load of women

Men have 15%+ more muscle mass then women because their muscle tissue is denser anyone who doesnt know that is an idiot, no woman can go toe to toe with a man.

my ex was tiny and no taller then me, he had a vice like grip, he could lift me up and my best defense was my legs, my arms were useless against him and I am no weakling, I was still picking my son up when he was half my weight, I lifted weights more then I do today and did 100 sit ups a day. the ex did none of that.

and their punch strength is upto 300% that of a womans, just look at that trans who broke a womans eyesocket and cheek bone in MMA

@VelvetChairGirl

Men have 15%+ more muscle mass then women because their muscle tissue is denser anyone who doesnt know that is an idiot, no woman can go toe to toe with a man.

my ex was tiny and no taller then me, he had a vice like grip, he could lift me up and my best defense was my legs, my arms were useless against him and I am no weakling, I was still picking my son up when he was half my weight, I lifted weights more then I do today and did 100 sit ups a day. the ex did none of that.

and their punch strength is upto 300% that of a womans, just look at that trans who broke a womans eyesocket and cheek bone in MMA

There was a thread over Christmas (subsequently deleted) where a woman asserted that she was able to punch as strongly, if not stronger as 80-90% of men. She admitted to being a small woman but was still completely confident that her punching strength would be comparable. She was not a trained fighter of any sort. Bonkers. I truly hope she's never in a position to find out how big the strength difference is in reality, even against small men who look 'harmless'.

the pivotal scene was the character being pumelled by the prison's 'hardman' in a locked prison cell and 'handling' it and therefore being the 'man' they truly were. I think it was supposed to be a 'feel good' moment.

Grim on so many levels.

The propaganda started years ago, with sweet and gentle Hayley Cropper. Hence the prevailing view in society that transwomen could never be violent AGPs and fetishists.

The realities of taking a beating like that aside (and there were plenty of unrealistic scenes throughout) -

It wasn't supposed to be feel good imo. It was supposed to highlight how the trans character has been brainwashed by ideas of toxic masculinity- the idea that to be a man, you have to be tough - compounded by the prisoners' hierarchy system because once the other prisoners knew he had survived the fight (and didn't lose face by not showing or "losing" the fight because it was stopped by a guard), he gained the respect of the rest of the prison population, who had no idea he was trans.

The theme of what it means to be a man was all through the show - the impact the job had on the male guards and how they won't/can't show emotion about it, the guard who had fought in the Falklands ("a real war"), the younger prisoner who was being forced by a gang to kill another, the fact that a woman took on the job of "saving" her younger brother who got involved in a gang, the prisoner who was grieving for a child silently which makes him vulnerable to radicalisation, prisoners hiding mental health issues, the governor (male) hiding in an office when a riot starts while female guards have to jump straight in to stopping it... all the way through, I thought the show was highlighting the stereotypes of being a man and questioning or showing the effect of them.

I agree, @AZFell. I have very mixed feelings about the series, having now watched all six episodes. I imagine there's going to be a series 2.

We were told:

• the transman (Troy Walker) had a GRC so nobody in the prison could be told Troy was trans

• It was implied that Troy had had SRS as well as taking hormones and having had a double mastectomy (judging by body shape)

• Troy was medically examined on arrival and the healthcare worker didn't spot anything unusual, or at any rate didn't pass that information on to the wing

• Troy was sharing a cell with another inmate and using communal showers and none of the inmates had clocked Troy was trans

Riley Carter who played Troy is a transman and I agree Riley passes very well for male, but it really irked me that there was a kneejerk response from all the more likeable characters that of course Troy was a man and needed to be in a male prison, and the only one objecting was the neanderthal 'PC gone mad' character. Not a word about possible sexual violence. Ridiculously unrealistic.

If I recall from some of the released prison stats, there is not a single transman housed in the male prison estate in the UK as it's far too dangerous.

@EishetChayil

The propaganda started years ago, with sweet and gentle Hayley Cropper. Hence the prevailing view in society that transwomen could never be violent AGPs and fetishists.

I think it was the same writer, a transwoman, who did (or advised) the Coronation Street character and the Hollyoaks 'transwoman bullied by feminists in prison' plotline.

@Apollo441

You know, with numerous programs and films like Buffy and the Marvel movies I think that people have come to believe that women are just as strong as men. As women are less routinely assaulted these days (a very good thing) there is little to remind them of just how vulnerable they are. I truley hope these women live their lives without ever encountering the reality of male physical violence but their naivety is a hindrance to safeguarding women and girls in general and they are useful allies to MRAs..

This is a great point. And they are storylines mostly written by men.

It's remarkable what people can convince themselves to believe out of social pressure. The Emperor's New Clothes is such a good story for that reason. I often see remarks on social media and under the line on news websites and have heard people saying similar in real life for decades - along the lines that

• if women think they're as good as men they should do all the same things without complaint, but of course they can't because they're weak (the men's rights view, depressingly often voiced by women as well)

or (flipside)

• of course women are as good as men and can do anything they can do, with the amazing extra superpower that we can get pregnant and give birth! Yay!

Different doesn't mean one is worse and one is better. Women's bodies are not the same as men's, and one of the differences is that men have greater physical strength. This is a fact, and it's astounding that anybody over the age of 4 tries to contradict it. Given that we are 50% of the human race, this is not some weird minority problem that can be ignored, and there's no moral dimension here. The world should be set up so that both sexes are valued and women's reproductive role and all that follows from that earns respect, not irritation and exclusion.

I think I read somewhere that pound for pound men are 30% physically stronger. On the other hand women are more flexible than men.

So for sport it is unfair to have biological males compete against females in weightlifting etc, but biological females have an advantage in sports where flexibility is desired.

Awful. The whole thing! Won't be watching again.

I know it's fiction, so you can't exactly get too stressed, I mean Superman flies and there's a popular TV show where a boy turns into a dog on a regular basis.
Fiction isn't written to reflect reality.

However, when it comes to the portrayal of women and other groups in popular media, when you start to notice patterns, eg: virtually all directors are men and most writers are men and most female parts are one dimensional sexy/attractive/dumb bores, few female leads, most leads are men etc...

When something is a noticeable pattern, I think it's right to pick up on it, and it's obvious there is a glaring absence of feminist points of view in mainstream fiction.

It's becoming increasingly popular to feature trans roles which is a really good thing, diversity is great, we love diversity but the story lines are virtually all rigid "TWAW/TMAM" with no nuance.

So you get these strong tough manly TM having fights and matching up to their tough manly prison inmate, and soft flowery helpless TW who can't stand up for themselves at all, I mean what is all that, apart from total inforcement of, or even dependence on sex-based stereotypes?

Then there's the awful portrayals of trans children that completely white wash the actual harm being done there.

Nonetheless it's good trans people are getting more plot lines for themselves.

It's to be expected it will turn up in drama and fiction, given it's such a huge social change. What irks me is the insistence by some activists that only trans actors should get trans roles. Why? Nobody insists that gay men or lesbians should be played by actors who are actually gay or lesbian. Actors are there to pretend to be somebody else.

One thing that might put a stop to that is if they were taken at their word and told 'No, you can't be considered for this role, because the character isn't trans'. Doesn't seem to work like that, though.

I think the messages were really confused. Very unreal because a trans “man” would never be housed in a male prison, in uk at least. There was mention of all the transwomen being housed in the vulnerable prisoners wing, where many of them were sex offenders. Troy did not want to be with them as “he had nothing in common, not the same and “his” crime was not sex offending”. And the validation was awful, in terms of stereotyping male behavior . Exactly the same as expecting women to validate stereotypical tw behaviour in prison. But served to bring out why women will be at risk from two and men won’t be from tm. But glad the sex offending rates were mentioned.

There was a thread over Christmas (subsequently deleted) where a woman asserted that she was able to punch as strongly, if not stronger as 80-90% of men. She admitted to being a small woman but was still completely confident that her punching strength would be comparable. She was not a trained fighter of any sort. Bonkers. I truly hope she's never in a position to find out how big the strength difference is in reality, even against small men who look 'harmless'.

Every time I see this, I yearn to get hold of these posters and put them and some other random men and women up against some plastic martial arts breaker boards.

These are reusable plastic boards martial arts clubs use so students can test their kicking and punching power against something standardised. They are colour-coded for strength, with white being weakest and black being strongest. It is normal for men to be able to break through multiple black boards in one punch. It is not normal for women to be able to do so. Women have to develop technique to maximise their punching power to get through one black board. Men have to develop technique so they can get through a stack of black boards at the same time.

@CheeseMmmm

Not seen it.

It's about a transman in a men's prison?

Is that right?

But transmen are always in women's prisons due to the massive risk to them.

????

Indeed. And wouldn't the same problem arise for women prison officers? I've read there have to be four female officers with Barbie Kardashian in Limerick Women's Prison at any one time - and he isn't a big guy. More propaganda to normalise the weakening of Women's rights 🙄

@catzwhiskas

I think the messages were really confused. Very unreal because a trans “man” would never be housed in a male prison, in uk at least. There was mention of all the transwomen being housed in the vulnerable prisoners wing, where many of them were sex offenders. Troy did not want to be with them as “he had nothing in common, not the same and “his” crime was not sex offending”. And the validation was awful, in terms of stereotyping male behavior . Exactly the same as expecting women to validate stereotypical tw behaviour in prison. But served to bring out why women will be at risk from two and men won’t be from tm. But glad the sex offending rates were mentioned.

The trans prisoners were in the same wing as the sex offenders, but it was clearly said that none of the trans prisoners were in for sex related crimes.

I took Troy saying he didn't have anything in common with them to mean that a)they were all trans women or b) he was the only one who had fully transitioned/had a GRC.