GDST schools announce trans policy

[AgathaMystery]

Hopefully this share token will work. If not I will screen shot.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/01/01/group-girls-schools-says-will-not-accept-transgender-pupils/

The end of the article seems to throw up a confusion. It says:

"The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) was due to publish guidelines to help schools interpret the 2010 Equality Actt_ and how it applies to trans pupils.

But last year the guidelines - that would have forced girls schools to admit trans pupils - were scrapped by the equalities watchdog, blaming a “lack of definitive case law” on the issue."

It's not clear why the EHRC needs definitive case law to do this. Does anyone know why?

It also says:

"The equality watchdog has now urged the Government to “show leadership” and publish its own guidance. “We recently wrote to the Department for Education to ask whether they intend to do so and to offer our advice and support in the process if they decide to do so,” a spokesman told The Telegraph.
A DfE spokesperson said: “Appropriately supporting all children in a school can involve balancing complex and sensitive matters, and schools are best placed to work with parents, pupils and public services to determine the best approach. All pupils should be supported and treated with kindness and respect.”"

But isn't the EHRC the body that publishes such guidance? If not, why did they publish anything at all before withdrawing it?

[quote PurplePikachu]Pleasant surprise! I’m a former GDST girl and will be contacting them to support this policy. If anybody else wants to show them some support (to counterbalance the trolls) you can contact them here: www.gdst.net/contact/[/quote]
Thanks for this link. I’ve sent them an email in support of the new guidance 👍

@Dozer

I strongly agree with their decision to maintain the single sex facilities and provision of education.

My concern is about the wording of the statement. Can’t explain it v well.

Me too. Can’t put my finger on it.

My girl is at at GDST school & has been since she was almost 4. I will be writing to the head & CEO in support.

@BlueBrush

I couldn't read the Telegraph article, so can I check - are they saying they wouldn't accept a new trans boy (only that they would allow an existing female pupil who transitions to stay)?

You can't get a GRC until you're 18, so unlikely that any potential trans boy pupil would be legally male, so I think they would be excluding them on the basis of gender reassignment, which is a protected characteristic. Does the EA allow them to do that?

(I'm asking because we're often at pains to make clear on these boards that it's not that we want to exclude trans people from female-only spaces, just male people.)

I can access the article using the smartphone Aeroplane Mode trick (quickly switch aeroplane mode on as article uploads)...

Surprise surprise they don't mention transboys (females).

As ever, this is really about the demands of people with a penis to enter female spaces and how we're supposed to deal with that.

Transboys:

1. are presumed not to want to join an all-girl school anyway, so no need to mention them,
2. If they do want to join they'd likely be accepted because they aren't legally male, guidelines only talk about excluding the legally male,
3. There's no mention whatsoever that transboys are normally excluded from all-boy schools because common sense seems to still exist. Being the only person with a vagina in a school full of the bepenised would not be good for the transboy.

@BigGreenOlives

So pleased to see there is a major organisation standing up for girls’ rights for single sex spaces. If only Girl Guides had the same strength.

Yes, I agree.

I think my concern with the wording is that it is unclear whether the GDST would like to be able to admit transgender males. It could be that they would like to admit males but but have had advice that the law does not allow this and therefore they want clarification from the Government. Or it could be that they want to be able to keep GDST schools single sex, but fear of backlash means that they have to say that they have a single sex policy because the law does not allow them not to rather than because they actively want the schools to be single sex.

If we looked at the actual wording from GDST (rather than how it is reported) it may help, but I haven't done that yet

couldn't read the Telegraph article, so can I check - are they saying they wouldn't accept a new trans boy (only that they would allow an existing female pupil who transitions to stay)?

That's how I read it. There's a bit about how they would support any existing pupil who expresses an interest in transitioning. So a natal girl who has doubts can stay. But you must be a natal girl to get in at all.

Just imagine what life would have been like if the organisations like the Fawcett Society, WEP, Guides, Rape Crisis and all the sporting organisations had followed the law and legally centred women and girls in their policies as the GDST are doing.

Excellent lead from the GDST, I'm so glad to see this.

I hope it paves the way for girls state schools to adopt a clear single sex policy.

"The equality watchdog has now urged the Government to “show leadership” and publish its own guidance.

There is a whole lot of scared buck passing, and it's because they all know they are looking for someone with the backbone to say the necessary 'no' and stand behind it. That's what they need, and they all know it.

And as pp says, this is not about trans issues because it does not apply to all trans people; this is specific to the protections of female only spaces, resources, facilities and meeting of specific female only needs from male people. This is a sex based issue. TW/TG and female are not the same thing, and there are lines that identity cannot cross without meaning that male, as a sex characteristic, unacceptably removing and trumping the rights of females.

I'm very glad to see all this being set out and public knowledge and will settling and addressing all this. It means that should a Labour government get into power, they will not be able to immediately throw away sex based rights; the window in which that could happen is now visibly closing.

Which is good. Trans people of both sexes should have everything they need. What they do not need and cannot have is the removal of female equality and access.

I'm very glad to see

I think my concern with the wording is that it is unclear whether the GDST would like to be able to admit transgender males. It could be that they would like to admit males but but have had advice that the law does not allow this and therefore they want clarification from the Government

I don't believe for a split second that GDST schools want to admit boys. These schools are massively proud of their single sex status and the history of pioneering girls' education. They describe themselves as specialists in girls' education and tailoring their teaching to how girls learn best.

Like all schools they were originally captured by a lobby that specifically targeted children and it's taken some time to gain the confidence / courage to stand up to the potential toxic attacks that the usual suspects will now launch.
I think this is huge and maybe it will end in a court case. But these schools have some hugely wealthy parents who would happily support the GDST if say Stonewall takes them on in an attempt to force the issue.

Have there been any cases of single sex state schools admitting pupils of the opposite sex?

Artichoke, I would be more hopeful. Truss has slowly but surely set the Equalities Department on a new direction, and got her own people in the EHRC without having the issue explode within either the Tory party or as a national political issue. In parallel case law has been building up and more people are aware that this issue goes beyond ‘being nice’ to a tiny minority. Maya, JKR, Glinner, Harry, Keira etc making a huge contribution.

In the meantime bullying TRA behaviour is increasingly exposed and Stonewall themselves have shown an astonishing ability to shoot themselves in the foot. They are no longer the authoritative advisor on LGB issues that schools were comfortable working with. Gender issues have hit some schools, perhaps particularly affluent girls schools, like a virus and they will have struggled to know what was best. They will already be practiced in recognising symptoms of teenage distress like anorexia and self harming and some teachers will have wondered why guidance for rapid onset gender dysphoria is so different and why organisations like Stonewall whose experience was historically around gay adults and teenagers were considered the experts.

Timefortea I don't believe there have been any cases, no. I do think that the GDST is sensible to get a policy in place, as frequently companies have clearly never thought about the possibilities and scramble to catch up when a situation kicks off.

I would like to know what the proportion of males wishing to transition to female who have been at a boys' only school or boarding school is. My anecdotal impression is that in the past it's been quite high. I have had the brutalising effect of being in an all-boys' institution with heavy gender pressure described to me. To dress, behave and have interests like the majority, when you feel absolutely nothing like what 'boys' seem to be and are surrounded by misogyny and homophobia which are constantly looking for targets... is quite traumatising.

Have there been any cases of single sex state schools admitting pupils of the opposite sex?

I think it depends on where you are in the world.
If you live in make believe land California, I'm sure it happens.
I'm not a believer of "it never happens".

www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/transgender-students-test-las-all-girls-schools-1029878/
From 2017
Marlborough is open to admitting students who are born male but identify as female, but it will now ask students who transition from female to male who are in grades 7 to 10 to find another school

I wish what happens in America were irrelevant but unfortunately our political landscape is under its influence.

But isn't the EHRC the body that publishes such guidance? If not, why did they publish anything at all before withdrawing it?

Weren't the EHRC taken to court recently (or to Judicial Review?) for promoting an interpretation of the law that completely contradicted the proviso that sex should be recognised in situations where single sex provision was appropriate? That would be why they withdrew their guidance.

The chair of the EHRC, Kishwer, Baroness Falkner of Margravine was appointed a year ago, presumably by Liz Truss and seems like ‘a good thing’.

Given the complete Stonewallisation of Government bodies and Quangos, I assume it is taking time to find a new direction. But looking good. The GDST statement and decision will open the door to them or the Government Equalities people responding. Liz Truss is very popular amongst Tory members so should have the clout to provide her and Kemi Badenoch with backing. Hopefully Nadhim Zahawi, the Education Secretary is on board as well.

From Baroness Falkner’s wiki.

“Falkner and the EHRC under her leadership have come under criticism from trans and LGBTQ+ organisations following comments she made in May 2021 to The Times, in which she said that women had the right to question transgender identity without fear of abuse, stigmatisation or loss of employment.[7][8] Her predecessor as EHRC chair, David Isaac, said the commission was politicised by the Conservative Party during her tenure.[9][10]”

That past DfE quote, if accurate, is meaningless drivel! Except the basic message of ‘we’re not saying anything and leaving individual schools to decide what to do’.

Parliament (with government introducing the changes, eg bills put before Parliament) and legal cases determine the law. If the relevant law is genuinely absent or uncertain, then publicly funded organisations with a remit to provide advisory guidance are not being unreasonable to say that.

But here, think there IS clear existing law enabling schools to offer single sex education, so it’d be better just to say that!

[quote PurplePikachu]Pleasant surprise! I’m a former GDST girl and will be contacting them to support this policy. If anybody else wants to show them some support (to counterbalance the trolls) you can contact them here: www.gdst.net/contact/[/quote]
Thanks from another gdst-er. Happy (and not surprised!) to see that Maya is also one.

Being at an all girls school gave a bedrock that everything was possible for me if I aimed high enough. There were frequent assemblies on the theme of 'aim for the stars and you'll reach the treetops. Aim for the treetops and you'll hit the ground.'

Female people were capable of anything.
Which very possibly contributed to my Ignorance of sexism, in thinking that the work of feminism was pretty much done by the end of the 80s and my developing horror at how precarious women's rights are globally in 2022.
I am also not convinced that my old school now having a male head is all that helpful for current pupils in terms of seeing women at the top of leadership structures... But, yes, good on the GDST - hopefully this provides a way for other female organisations to row back.

I'm hoping it's a useful first step in pushing back. Our indy girls school is not gdst (not on the list of 25), but I hope will take notice.
Having an awful time with young DD, LGBT+ club run by sixth form LGBT+ students, Stonewall guidance referred to in RSE policy etc. Parental influence does not seem to get anywhere, and we may have to pull her out, but it's everywhere!

Glad to see this is being flagged by schools as a very significant and growing issue, and requesting stronger guidance from DofE. Lobby groups should be out. We need a neutral safe environment and balanced and scientific teaching. I'm sure inclusion and anti-bullying is not beyond the with of schools to ensure themselves.
Sexuality is a very important part of education, but the TQ and gender ideology needs to be dropped.

Rays of sunlight 🤞

*wit not with 🙄

@JellySaurus

But isn't the EHRC the body that publishes such guidance? If not, why did they publish anything at all before withdrawing it?

Weren't the EHRC taken to court recently (or to Judicial Review?) for promoting an interpretation of the law that completely contradicted the proviso that sex should be recognised in situations where single sex provision was appropriate? That would be why they withdrew their guidance.

I think that was the captured Crown Prosecution Service. The guidance was so awful and with so many obvious safeguarding flaws that if was a shame it didn't go to JR. It exemplified the problems with self interested adults being allowed to write policy that affects children - red flags everywhere.

@Goatsaregreat

I think my concern with the wording is that it is unclear whether the GDST would like to be able to admit transgender males. It could be that they would like to admit males but but have had advice that the law does not allow this and therefore they want clarification from the Government

I don't believe for a split second that GDST schools want to admit boys. These schools are massively proud of their single sex status and the history of pioneering girls' education. They describe themselves as specialists in girls' education and tailoring their teaching to how girls learn best.

Like all schools they were originally captured by a lobby that specifically targeted children and it's taken some time to gain the confidence / courage to stand up to the potential toxic attacks that the usual suspects will now launch.
I think this is huge and maybe it will end in a court case. But these schools have some hugely wealthy parents who would happily support the GDST if say Stonewall takes them on in an attempt to force the issue.

That is good to know. I am aware of two girls schools that say TWAW, buy neither are GDST.