To not understand the issue with surrogacy?

[Blackbird1234]

I've seen a few posts on some threads in this topic, from people condemning surrogacy. I don't understand why it is seen as bad, if all parties consent. Can anyone explain, please?

I, along with many others on the thread I am sure, would expect that professionals with excellent safeguarding experience would use the existing laws to make decisions about each and every case of abusive family situations. And would also look at the best resources to support the child and the family.

And it’s always best to have safeguarding policies in place beforehand for predictable outcomes, rather than implementing them reactively to revelations. Like how it was only discovered after the fact that Baby Gammy’s father was a convicted paedophile.

I jave just read the past few pages. Why is @Starcup going on about issues that are separate to surrogacy?

In surrogacy a baby is created to be bought, that is not right for mother or baby. It's a completely different scenario to adoption.

@Helleofabore

My disgruntlement is with those that think smackheads, :abusive/shit parents (or those than can’t put their kids first) should get to keep them because they’re biologically related…..

Actually, I don’t believe anyone has stayed this. I think you will find that every time you raised it, the focus was attempted to be brought back to surrogacy.

I, along with many others on the thread I am sure, would expect that professionals with excellent safeguarding experience would use the existing laws to make decisions about each and every case of abusive family situations. And would also look at the best resources to support the child and the family.

But I don’t believe that your comparison is relevant to surrogacy, and I was not alone in pointing that out.

As we kept pointing out the major differences between adoption and surrogacy. Although there may be intersecting issues, they are two different things.

I am happy to repeat the difference, yet again.

Oh I actually do agree with you that they are separate entities but people continue to bring it up or make references to it…

@Starcup don't quite get how you ended up making that argument, but in my opinion(personal and where I work) SS don't actually remove enough children regardless if they're living in squalor, fairly ok or middle class. I also don't judge a parent's suitability based on their income or job. I know and understand why it doesn't happen as often as it should(which doesn't make it right) but that's yet another discussion for another thread.

@Helleofabore

This thread is about surrogacy.

Your constant attempts to derail it probably is a very good indication that you need to start your own thread about these issues.

Well funny that that’s a few posts up a poster started a post about adoption…..

Everyone jumped in that until they didn’t wavy to hear other replies and then comes ‘start your own thread’

Of course that would be the one back….

Not sure things have been that derailed though, as majority on here can see the fundamental problems with surrogacy and are in agreement. Perhaps those trying to derail felt threatened by the majority perspective.

**It keeps showing itself up on various subjects doesn't it?

Safeguarding = extremism.

For what purpose would you make that link? Who benefits? And who does not?

It sums up everything and the motives of those who do it perfectly.

No need to say more on the subject on this thread to those doing it**

I admire your administration red, but they must have been really extreme to be banned from MN?

As I say, I’m a dick at times and I’m an opinionated twat but…… ive managed to never be banned. Same for a lot of posters.

Say what you like, but MN are really good at moderating and imo if you’re banned there’s a really good reason for it!!

If you are snidely referring to Bunny and Idontwanna and their posts, they were discussing their personal experiences in relation to adoption and separation from birth mothers.

I see your post as whataboutery again, and is trying to score points or gain ‘gotchas’ or whatever. Any other posters are free to answer, but stop taking the lack of engagement with your whataboutery post as either support for those situations or otherwise.

@Helleofabore

You really cannot post without insulting people who disagree with you it seems.

While telling us all to be respectful (oh… that’s right, I don’t deserve respect).

Why not take the time to read Lang Cleg’s posts and let us know what was so extremist about them?

Are you kidding? Pahahahahah

They were fucking banned from MN!!!!!

They don’t ban people for fun!!!

@RedToothBrush

I think we get the message.

Starcup doesn't believe in safeguarding women and kids.

Safeguarding is extremism.

Women advocating safeguarding are extremists.

Queer theory and neoliberalism can get to fuck.

Lets talk about reproductive prostitution, human trafficking, commodification of babies, coercive control, exploitation of the poor and foreign, buying babies, the dumping of imperfect 'goods' etc etc

Cos starcup gets offended by the mere suggestion of these things.

Its almost as if, if you don't talk about them or acknowledge them they can't exist abd then surrogacy is a perfect happy ever after.

Remind me again why safeguarding is bad? Is it because it reminds the over privileged of the dark side in life and the things that their uber privilege is built upon.

We are busy tearing down statues but hell go for your fucking life about safeguarding. There really are times i dont think we have moved on from the Victorian era and learnt the lesson of genocide. At all.

Yea that’s exactly my thoughts 🤣🤣🤣 night night red.

@starcup "I'm a dick at times", well, you said it.

However, going by your latest post I guess you switched tactics to " post a lot of nonsense to get to 1k and get the thread shut

Eh? WTF are you on abou?! That’s a belter. Does a thread get closed if it gets to 1k responses????

Genuinely never knew that but do tell me how that would be be my aim/fault, as I can’t make people post….. what a wired suggestion. Funny though

So, you have no idea what happened to Lang Cleg? You are just being … what?

No, Lang Cleg was targeted by those from Twitter, as have numerous others over the past 5 years for pointing out conflicts with safeguarding issues. And iirc not pretzeling her words enough to remain in the talk guidelines.

There are many people banned from MN on this board for stating things that get left untouched on AIBU. Because this board is heavily monitored by those on twitter who want to silence women with opinions that they disagree with.

Lang was one of those targeted. And one of those missed even today.

@RedToothBrush

All this is is people who don't understand or give a fuck about human rights who instead dress up misfortune as a violation of their rights so they can justify shitting all over someone else.

Trojan horses.

I disagree.

Human rights campaigners guised as control freaks with something they don’t agree with.

Sorry to burst you bubble red…..

@Enough4me

Not sure things have been that derailed though, as majority on here can see the fundamental problems with surrogacy and are in agreement. Perhaps those trying to derail felt threatened by the majority perspective.

I think this is the issue. When the implications of decisions around surrogacy are laid out and solutions sought, it’s clear that there aren’t any. So the only possible response for those entrenched in their support for surrogacy is to dismiss these concerns, fail to acknowledge these concerns, and struggle to come up with any answers. If that support was real, rather than a position that one thinks is supposed to take, then I would expect some form of educated response and coherent argument. I suspect that there isn’t any because many of those supporters of surrogacy have never actually thought about it, but it just seems the “kind” position to take. Some react with abuse when they’re concrete position cannot be argued.

I'm going to look up Lang Cleg.

@Enough4me

I jave just read the past few pages. Why is *@Starcup* going on about issues that are separate to surrogacy?

In surrogacy a baby is created to be bought, that is not right for mother or baby. It's a completely different scenario to adoption.

Well read them all before you make opinions. I never started the adoption debate…….

[quote ldontWanna]@Starcup don't quite get how you ended up making that argument, but in my opinion(personal and where I work) SS don't actually remove enough children regardless if they're living in squalor, fairly ok or middle class. I also don't judge a parent's suitability based on their income or job. I know and understand why it doesn't happen as often as it should(which doesn't make it right) but that's yet another discussion for another thread.[/quote]
Ok, so you’re okay with knowing children live in absolute shit circumstances, but that’s ok because the parents birthed them….. because that makes sense 🤨🙄🙄

It seems you don’t know much about the board you are posting on at all then.

Three strikes and you are out. And a strike can be gained for posting ‘not in the spirit’ which you might discover for yourself. You can earn numerous strikes per thread even.

People on the board receive strikes for posting a biscuit. Or for pointing out that a twitter account is posting screenshots. Or for directly telling a male that what they are saying they wish to happen, is a safeguarding issue, without prefacing it with ‘some’ or ‘not all’.

Very few people get banned from this MN board for being ‘extremist.’

@Helleofabore

It seems you don’t know much about the board you are posting on at all then.

Three strikes and you are out. And a strike can be gained for posting ‘not in the spirit’ which you might discover for yourself. You can earn numerous strikes per thread even.

People on the board receive strikes for posting a biscuit. Or for pointing out that a twitter account is posting screenshots. Or for directly telling a male that what they are saying they wish to happen, is a safeguarding issue, without prefacing it with ‘some’ or ‘not all’.

Very few people get banned from this MN board for being ‘extremist.’

Well they don’t get banned for nothing do they? If that was the case about 10 of us would have been banned from being smart arses and I clearly include myself in that.

So I don’t believe for a second they ban people for fun. It must take some severe rule breakers (MN wound delete the thread if they could, before banning someone!!)

I’ve given several but not been banned so you’re talking bollocks.

Ok, so you’re okay with knowing children live in absolute shit circumstances, but that’s ok because the parents birthed them….. because that makes sense 🤨🙄🙄

You're obviously on a windup. I say I don't think SS remove children as often as they should (which means they should remove more kids) but that means I think kids should live in shitty situations?

How do you even get there?

Hell I definitely need that platypus gif now. :/

@Helleofabore

If you are snidely referring to Bunny and Idontwanna and their posts, they were discussing their personal experiences in relation to adoption and separation from birth mothers.

I see your post as whataboutery again, and is trying to score points or gain ‘gotchas’ or whatever. Any other posters are free to answer, but stop taking the lack of engagement with your whataboutery post as either support for those situations or otherwise.

Wth you on about?…..

[quote Enough4me]@starcup "I'm a dick at times", well, you said it.[/quote]
Christ are you joining in at the last leg?? Ok? Well you really upset me with your remarks “ sad face
“ 👌🥳

Ok, so you’re okay with knowing children live in absolute shit circumstances, but that’s ok because the parents birthed them….. because that makes sense

What Starcup says IdontWann said

What ldontWanna actually said (bolded for clarity)

@Starcupdon't quite get how you ended up making that argument, but in my opinion(personal and where I work) SS don't actually remove enough children regardless if they're living in squalor, fairly ok or middle class* I also don't judge a parent's suitability based on their income or job. I know and understand why it doesn't happen as often as it should(which doesn't make it right) but that's yet another discussion for another thread