To not understand the issue with surrogacy?

[Blackbird1234]

I've seen a few posts on some threads in this topic, from people condemning surrogacy. I don't understand why it is seen as bad, if all parties consent. Can anyone explain, please?

@Starcup

*Surrogacy is bad for babies. Therefore it is unethical. That is as simple as I can make it*

So is bringing babies up in shit circumstances in general it could be argued but that would apply to far more people so that doesn’t count…..

But that isn't refuting my argument. It's just another example of something else that is bad for babies

You don't actually seem to understand how arguments work. At all. I don't know why you think this is a good debating tactic. It's the logical equivalent of, 'Murder is bad' ' Yeah but so is child abuse so murder is actually ok'. It just makes no sense.

Surrogacy is unethical because it is bad for babies. You clearly don't have any argument at all to refute that. Because there isn't one. So you just keep banging on about other things that are bad for babies. It's weird!

Yes they can risk assess the situation for themselves max you don’t need to be involved.

How does someone getting a tattoo risk assess whether the tattoo parlour is going to give them Hepatitis C? If the client thinks it’s safe but contracts the disease, whose fault is that?

How does a surrogate risk assess the legal implications of a surrogacy? If she miscarries, or is going to undertake an abortion, or is recommended a caesarean but doesn’t want one and something goes wrong, and so on, and so on, whose fault is that?

I’ve said all I’ve got to say really throughout the thread. Look through and you’ll find your answers.

It doesn’t matter to me what anyone on here thinks. Everyone has different opinions

@RepentMotherfucker

@NotBadConsidering

Yes they can risk assess the situation for themselves max you don’t need to be involved.

How does someone getting a tattoo risk assess whether the tattoo parlour is going to give them Hepatitis C? If the client thinks it’s safe but contracts the disease, whose fault is that?

How does a surrogate risk assess the legal implications of a surrogacy? If she miscarries, or is going to undertake an abortion, or is recommended a caesarean but doesn’t want one and something goes wrong, and so on, and so on, whose fault is that?

Again, I’ve said everything. No point in continually asking the same thing over and over.

I’ll create a framework and send it to you tomorrow 🙄😂

@Starcup

I’ve said all I’ve got to say really throughout the thread. Look through and you’ll find your answers.

It doesn’t matter to me what anyone on here thinks. Everyone has different opinions

Surrogacy is unethical because it is bad for babies.

You have not presented any argument or evidence whatsoever to counter that on this thread. Not once.

@Starcup

I’ve said all I’ve got to say really throughout the thread. Look through and you’ll find your answers.

It doesn’t matter to me what anyone on here thinks. Everyone has different opinions

You haven’t said much really. “Women can choose, be damned with the consequences.”

Everyone has different opinions. It’s the opinions that are thought through and worked out that should count towards policy change, not the ones just randomly stated.

I’ll create a framework and send it to you tomorrow

I look forward to you solving a problem that grown ups policy makers haven’t been able to solve despite years of trying.

**Surrogacy is unethical because it is bad for babies.

You have not presented any argument or evidence whatsoever to counter that on this thread. Not once**

And here we go again, I’ll reply the same to you then you present the same question back…

There are lots of situations where t babies are brought in to the world when it wouldn’t be in the interest of the baby…. But because the mother wants one that trumps everything.

**You haven’t said much really. “Women can choose, be damned with the consequences.”

Everyone has different opinions. It’s the opinions that are thought through and worked out that should count towards policy change, not the ones just randomly stated**

I’m not actively trying to change the policy, I never will. Most people generally don’t get involved with policy making unless it affects them. That’s the same for anything…

@Starcup

**Surrogacy is unethical because it is bad for babies.

You have not presented any argument or evidence whatsoever to counter that on this thread. Not once**

And here we go again, I’ll reply the same to you then you present the same question back…

There are lots of situations where t babies are brought in to the world when it wouldn’t be in the interest of the baby…. But because the mother wants one that trumps everything.

Do you really not understand why saying 'yes x is bad but y is also bad' isn't an argument for x?

Really?

I think if that is the case you are out of your intellectual depth here. As in life presumably...

I’m not actively trying to change the policy, I never will. Most people generally don’t get involved with policy making unless it affects them. That’s the same for anything

Yes, because leaving policy discussion around surrogacy down to those who only benefit from surrogacy, is sure to end well 🙄.

@NotBadConsidering

I’ll create a framework and send it to you tomorrow

I look forward to you solving a problem that grown ups policy makers haven’t been able to solve despite years of trying.

Can you forward it to me when you get it? I almost can't wait to see how it comes out.

**Do you really not understand why saying 'yes x is bad but y is also bad' isn't an argument for x?

Really?

I think if that is the case you are out of your intellectual depth here. As in life presumably**

I’ve got a degree so not doing too bad. 😉

Stop throwing insults because a poster has a different stance. Not very mature is it? For someone so intelligent

@NotBadConsidering

I’m not actively trying to change the policy, I never will. Most people generally don’t get involved with policy making unless it affects them. That’s the same for anything

Yes, because leaving policy discussion around surrogacy down to those who only benefit from surrogacy, is sure to end well 🙄.

Yeah not everyone is hardcore like those activists on here

Can you forward it to me when you get it? I almost can't wait to see how it comes out. grin

No need, my pleased to paste you in it

@Starcup

**Do you really not understand why saying 'yes x is bad but y is also bad' isn't an argument for x?

Really?

I think if that is the case you are out of your intellectual depth here. As in life presumably**

I’ve got a degree so not doing too bad. 😉

Stop throwing insults because a poster has a different stance. Not very mature is it? For someone so intelligent

You've avoided the question again.

My question to you is - do you think that saying 'yes x is bad but y is also bad' is an argument for x?

Yes or no?

Starcup’s legal framework for surrogacy:

“Women can choose to do it, it doesn’t matter if they suffer trauma, loss, disability or death, or financial loss, or that the baby is sold, or suffers trauma down the line, because these women are grown adults and we don’t need to look after them at all and it doesn’t even matter about the babies.”

Get the White Paper ready, next sitting of Parliament and get it through!

Pigeon.Playing chess. 'Nuff said.

If both outcomes a negative why is only one worthy of discussion? Why is one never questioned really but the other is opposed to such a degree, when really the outcome for the child could be shit on both accounts…

@ldontWanna

Pigeon.Playing chess. 'Nuff said.

I know, I know!

@NotBadConsidering

Starcup’s legal framework for surrogacy:

“Women can choose to do it, it doesn’t matter if they suffer trauma, loss, disability or death, or financial loss, or that the baby is sold, or suffers trauma down the line, because these women are grown adults and we don’t need to look after them at all and it doesn’t even matter about the babies.”

Get the White Paper ready, next sitting of Parliament and get it through!

Better than ‘women can’t chose ever, ever because we say’

@ldontWanna

Pigeon.Playing chess. 'Nuff said.

Im so sick of covid threads, this is refreshing

@NotBadConsidering

Starcup’s legal framework for surrogacy:

“Women can choose to do it, it doesn’t matter if they suffer trauma, loss, disability or death, or financial loss, or that the baby is sold, or suffers trauma down the line, because these women are grown adults and we don’t need to look after them at all and it doesn’t even matter about the babies.”

Get the White Paper ready, next sitting of Parliament and get it through!

Maybe we can extend this framework to all areas?

Stop fucking babying us! We'll make our own laws up!

@Starcup

If both outcomes a negative why is only one worthy of discussion? Why is one never questioned really but the other is opposed to such a degree, when really the outcome for the child could be shit on both accounts…

Because it's a different discussion. Because it's irrelevant to surrogacy and the risks ,negative effects and bad outcomes for the mothers and babies. Because there are things put in place to help with that,safeguards, legal frameworks etc. even if they aren't 100% effective. There is work still being done,campaigns,charities, new bills etc. It's nowhere near being done with. Because a woman having the right to reproduce is not the same as taking advantage of that right and what's worse, buying it. Because a thread only has 1000 posts and debating the rights and wrongs of everything on a single one is pointless and detracts from what can be a very important discussion. Because OP asked what's wrong with surrogacy.

I can keep going.