Mermaids

[NoreenLFO]

Mermaids critique -
jamesesses.substack.com/p/mermaids-anything-but-a-fairytale

Thanks for the links to the clip Screaming. I cross-posted with you earlier - by the time I'd checked to see whether the programme was still available you'd posted your link. I'm glad that bit is still up there.

There are a few more clips on iplayer from that programme, but they've obviously been carefully selected.

@Datun

I don't know which talk it was, but she actually said to the audience, of course we did what anybody would do, and took him to the doctor. Because he wanted to play with dolls!!

😱

@OldCrone

Thanks for the links to the clip Screaming. I cross-posted with you earlier - by the time I'd checked to see whether the programme was still available you'd posted your link. I'm glad that bit is still up there.

There are a few more clips on iplayer from that programme, but they've obviously been carefully selected.

Funny that, eh? I wonder when they took the programme down 🤔

@Datun

I don't know which talk it was, but she actually said to the audience, of course we did what anybody would do, and took him to the doctor. Because he wanted to play with dolls!!

I remember something like that, and I thought it was in the TED talk, but when I watched it again it wasn't there. I have a recollection of her saying something like 'He wanted to play with dolls. Can you imagine?' seemingly expecting that everyone would share her horror at the thought.

It was either in another talk or perhaps it was another mother of a boy who ended up at the doctor's surgery because he wanted to play with dolls.

Thank you for the link, excellent and horrific piece safeguarding wise, I've subscribed.

Does anyone know anything about the "safeguarding org" badge on the website? Not one I recognise.

FrancescaContini

I know. I genuinely believe that certain people actually have bought into the notion that gender stereotypes are innate. And I think Susie Green was one of them.

I don't think it's that unusual, to be honest. Many people believe that the way men and women are socialised is nothing to do with a constructed way of forcing a hierarchy. It's gone on so long, and it's so prevalent, it can feel quite natural.

It's only with things like feminism, where are you suddenly have a different set of glasses, that it all comes into blistering focus.

However, Susie Green absolutely knows enough by now, to realise that it's not innate, there's no excuse.

This one:

I remember something like that, and I thought it was in the TED talk, but when I watched it again it wasn't there. I have a recollection of her saying something like 'He wanted to play with dolls. Can you imagine?' seemingly expecting that everyone would share her horror at the thought.

I'm certain it was the Ted talk, too. And I also remember wondering why I couldn't find it when I looked at it subsequently.

@Datun

I remember something like that, and I thought it was in the TED talk, but when I watched it again it wasn't there. I have a recollection of her saying something like 'He wanted to play with dolls. Can you imagine?' seemingly expecting that everyone would share her horror at the thought.

I'm certain it was the Ted talk, too. And I also remember wondering why I couldn't find it when I looked at it subsequently.

Same here!

Sorry, I thought it was the Ted talk. I was aware that some of her talks have been removed but I remember watching her laugh about the penis size and there not being enough material to work with
I'm shocked too, disgusted even (although I am not from Manchester ), that a parent who takes their child abroad for FGM would be charged yet SG has, to my knowledge, never even been questioned

It's my recollection that Jackie wanted to play with dolls and it wasn't allowed, particularly from the dad's point of view. To the extent where all the dolls were taken away. What on earth do they think that is telling their own child? It's ludicrous.

Jackie was crying on the phone to their grandmother asking for a doll for Christmas, but don't tell mum and dad.

Jackie was taken to the doctor.

And Susie Green assumed, just assumed, that the entire audience to her talk would be on board. Not sitting there with their jaw on the floor.

And apart from anything else, even if you buy in wholesale to the whole gender stereotyping nonsense, what the fuck do these people think that action man is, or a teddy, or GI Joe?? They are all dolls.

Do they honestly think that a child who wants to pay with replicas of humans must pick a sex? It's fucking ridiculous.

And I understand the actions of a mother who has made some irrevocable decisions which they may now regret. But I don't understand the degree to which Susie Green takes this.

Thanks for sharing.

Jackie was taken to the doctor

And ti make matters worse the drs now all.agree it is a problem

I'm.sure I speak.for most people when I say picking toys in a toy store, the restrictions are merely - is it in budget/decent quality Is it age appropriate. That's all the thinking required.

Not a dr

@Thingybob

"A"??????.

I'm flummoxed on that one

Abusive

I thought my message might get deleted

In every single story I've read about a young child being diagnosed with gender dysphoria, at least one of the following has been mentioned, often several.

• Child has experienced a traumatic family break-up or a bereavement and is struggling with it
• Child has experienced some form of abuse
• Child is growing up in a family/community/religious community where rigid gender stereotypes are enforced
• Child is on the autistic spectrum or has some other neurodiverse condition
• Child has been bullied at school for being different
• Child has major mental health issues, e.g. depression, anxiety, OCD, eating disorder

If a child with a background like this developed an eating disorder, no sane parent would help the child to restrict their calorie intake. Not affirming the child's disordered beliefs would cause conflict in the short term but is vital in the longer term.

I see gender issues as another psychological issue, needing extensive discussion with the child to find out what's in their head, and to correct any misconceptions.

@Datun

FrancescaContini

I know. I genuinely believe that certain people actually have bought into the notion that gender stereotypes are innate. And I think Susie Green was one of them.

I don't think it's that unusual, to be honest. Many people believe that the way men and women are socialised is nothing to do with a constructed way of forcing a hierarchy. It's gone on so long, and it's so prevalent, it can feel quite natural.

It's only with things like feminism, where are you suddenly have a different set of glasses, that it all comes into blistering focus.

However, Susie Green absolutely knows enough by now, to realise that it's not innate, there's no excuse.

I thought that during the 1970s most gender stereotypes were exploded / explored and revealed to be exactly that - stereotypes. I can’t believe that twenty or more years on, people still believed there is still a “truth” in a stereotype and can’t see it as a social construct.

This thread is really enlightening, thank you. I am so so horrified and saddened at the idea of a male child being taken to the doctor because he wanted to play with a doll

I see gender issues as another psychological issue, needing extensive discussion with the child to find out what's in their head, and to correct any misconceptions

Its certainly contradictory. They need surgeries but the body isn't wrong. They know from 2 but need extra time at puberty. It's not stereotypes typed but they all played with the "wrong toys" it's not a mental disorder but they are simultaneously suicidal.

We know an awful lot about what trans isn't but there are no definitions if what it actually is that are not just circular definitions.

One charity says its not stereotypes or wrong bodies but rhe nhs criteria has something like 8 points to meet..you need at least 6. If you remove anything related to the body being wrong or stereotypes there aren't enough left to keet the criteria fir gender dysphoria.

We are doing all this to children while no one can actually agree on any criteria or definitions

Came across this:
jamesesses.substack.com/p/mermaids-anything-but-a-fairytale

@Whatwouldscullydo

I see gender issues as another psychological issue, needing extensive discussion with the child to find out what's in their head, and to correct any misconceptions

Its certainly contradictory. They need surgeries but the body isn't wrong. They know from 2 but need extra time at puberty. It's not stereotypes typed but they all played with the "wrong toys" it's not a mental disorder but they are simultaneously suicidal.

We know an awful lot about what trans isn't but there are no definitions if what it actually is that are not just circular definitions.

One charity says its not stereotypes or wrong bodies but rhe nhs criteria has something like 8 points to meet..you need at least 6. If you remove anything related to the body being wrong or stereotypes there aren't enough left to keet the criteria fir gender dysphoria.

We are doing all this to children while no one can actually agree on any criteria or definitions

Exactly. No wonder the women and equalities committee ended up talking absolute contradictory gibberish.

We know an awful lot about what trans isn't but there are no definitions if what it actually is that are not just circular definitions.

It would be nice to hear one.

Sadly I think most the work is no longer about advancing rights or care for trans people its merely about just making sure you are disagreeing with the right people.

That's how they have backed into a corner having an entire talk/ethos based on trying to help children access to surgeries or drugs to correct their " Birth defects" whilst simultaneously releasing tweets that claim that no one is in the wrong body and claiming transition can cure autism.

I would also like an explanation for all these super smart articulat toddlers who are asking God to correct his mistake and give them a penis/vagina at an age where most of us spent the entire time pulling them out dog food bowls and dealing with tantrums because a stick broke in half.

Is Mermaids the one that Graham Lineham opposed?

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

In every single story I've read about a young child being diagnosed with gender dysphoria, at least one of the following has been mentioned, often several.

• Child has experienced a traumatic family break-up or a bereavement and is struggling with it
• Child has experienced some form of abuse
• Child is growing up in a family/community/religious community where rigid gender stereotypes are enforced
• Child is on the autistic spectrum or has some other neurodiverse condition
• Child has been bullied at school for being different
• Child has major mental health issues, e.g. depression, anxiety, OCD, eating disorder

If a child with a background like this developed an eating disorder, no sane parent would help the child to restrict their calorie intake. Not affirming the child's disordered beliefs would cause conflict in the short term but is vital in the longer term.

I see gender issues as another psychological issue, needing extensive discussion with the child to find out what's in their head, and to correct any misconceptions.

In the Nolan podcast (episode 4?) Dr David Bell explicitly states that, in his professional opinion gender dysphoria only exists where there is another underlying cause. And he should know really shouldn't he?

But blah blah authentic self etc...