Found this in the New Forest!

[Boomboomboomboom]

Thought you would all enjoy this little bit of guerrilla feminism spotted deep in the New Forest, Hampshire today. Brought a little Christmas cheer to my sister and I!

I was born and still live rurally too @ArabellaScott . I was thinking of the enjoyment of people who live here, not visit here.

I wonder if the idea of 'nature' as something separate and pure to be unsullied by humans might be at the root of some of our problems with poor ecological choices!

Also - wow. What a way to argue your point there. Linking my views to poor ecological choices. That is quite something.

@Artichokeleaves

Unless you also believe that no one should ever state in writing "TWAW" in a public place in case it upsets someone of other beliefs, this does not have a leg to stand on.

No one has an entitlement to require the rest of the world to protect them from encountering other beliefs, views and needs. No one has an entitlement to require that those trying to retain political rights under attack don't actually mention it for fear of upsetting those who want those rights removed. #notyourmum

Let's be honest, if someone from here had encountered "twaw" written on a rock in the new forest, they would absolutely be here kicking off about how horrible and oppressed and unsafe it made them feel, and can't they even enjoy a nice walk in the forest without "gender ideology" being forced down their throat. We see posts like this all the time, multiple posters here can't even handle being asked to tick their gender on a form, or asked politely what pronouns they use, or tolerate seeing any mild comment in favour of trans rights, they'd most certainly be unhappy about rock graffiti too.

@EarthSight

I wonder if the idea of 'nature' as something separate and pure to be unsullied by humans might be at the root of some of our problems with poor ecological choices!

Also - wow. What a way to argue your point there. Linking my views to poor ecological choices. That is quite something.

No, I'm not directing that to you personally, at all. I was thinking about the wider issue of how we divide up 'nature' and 'human' and see them as two separate things. It's a very common way of thinking, and I think it's fallacious.

By 'we', I mean people in general. Not you.

Let's be honest, if someone from here had encountered "twaw" written on a rock in the new forest, they would absolutely be here kicking off about how horrible and oppressed and unsafe it made them feel,

I very much doubt anyone here would be saying words in the forest made them feel unsafe. Irritated yes. But seeing as how so many tra's rarely leave their mothers basements, particularly for a walk in the forest, I doubt they will be coming across women's words in the wilderness, or vice versa.

No, I'm not directing that to you personally, at all. I was thinking about the wider issue of how we divide up 'nature' and 'human' and see them as two separate things. It's a very common way of thinking, and I think it's fallacious.

I think the lives people often lead can make them feel quite distanced from nature rather than part of it.

@EarthSight

Also, I would like to point out that I don't think of the slate as graffiti - it's a natural material and the message was written on that. The graffiti I was referring to was writing on stones and such.

What I would like to avoid is a situation where we're using the countryside or nice place where people go for a walk as somewhere else to go 'Hey - here's my opinion on this'.

I don't want to see it, even if I agree with the message. In national parks we already have problems with umpteen rock stacking showing up. One person does it, then another, then another, then another, then another, all wanting an Instagramable pic and and opportunity to say I WOZ 'ERE on somewhere beautiful before they return to urban settings.

In once small place I counted 50 - 70 of them. Things like that quickly add up and become an issue and a bloody eyesore. I do not want to see the same thing being done with political messages, however small, even if they are lovely or I agree with them.

I understand this may be an unpopular opinion and that people have decent-counter arguments to it, but I would like people to consider thinking about the matter differently or try to see where I'm coming from.

Sorry for the derail though :/

I agree with you here.

In many locations the countryside can't be an utterly, natural unspoilt wilderness as it's someone's workplace. Scotland has codified a right to roam, including over working farms, but that doesn't give anyone the right to make their own additions/ put up political slogans.

In wilder locations which aren't "workplaces" I agree it's jarring.

Let's be honest, if someone from here had encountered "twaw" written on a rock in the new forest, they would absolutely be here kicking off about how horrible and oppressed and unsafe it made them feel, and can't they even enjoy a nice walk in the forest without "gender ideology" being forced down their throat

I don't think they would say it made them feel unsafe, but I agree that the rest of what you say is a likely reaction; plus removing the stone and probably bolstered up with the points EarthSight has been making.

@KimikosNightmare

Let's be honest, if someone from here had encountered "twaw" written on a rock in the new forest, they would absolutely be here kicking off about how horrible and oppressed and unsafe it made them feel, and can't they even enjoy a nice walk in the forest without "gender ideology" being forced down their throat

I don't think they would say it made them feel unsafe, but I agree that the rest of what you say is a likely reaction; plus removing the stone and probably bolstered up with the points EarthSight has been making.

How. exactly? And what led you to this conclusion?

Well I’m from here and so if kimiko and neither one of us would be kicking off and removing it

But I don’t doubt that there are SOME posters who might/would which is obviously their right

A fair few TWAW stickers/graffiti round here. I wouldn't tamper with it. Same as I wouldn't interfere with football stickers, stones with bible passages or posters for political candidates. Despite not necessarily supporting any of those things. All part of life's rich tapestry, eh?

Yes Arabella I agree. Its reassuring to live in a country where people can visibly fight for their own causes.

@Leafstamp

Yes Arabella I agree. Its reassuring to live in a country where people can visibly fight for their own causes.

You don't actually have the right to visibly plaster your political views wherever you want.

On public property stickers on lamposts, railings etc.are tolerated during election campaigns (and during the Festival) but are usually removed afterwards. Quite rightly so- they are just litter.

You (general you) have the "right to roam" in Scotland. If I found this slate or ribbons or stones with slogans on our family farm I would remove all of them, regardless of what they were promoting.

@KimikosNightmare

I wasn’t saying that. Of course people should not break the law in fighting their cause, but posters, signs, leaflets, campaigns etc that are within the law are a sign that people are engaged with society and trying to make a difference (whether we agree with their cause or not). Engagement is a good thing.

[quote Leafstamp]@KimikosNightmare

I wasn’t saying that. Of course people should not break the law in fighting their cause, but posters, signs, leaflets, campaigns etc that are within the law are a sign that people are engaged with society and trying to make a difference (whether we agree with their cause or not). Engagement is a good thing.[/quote]
Er, sticking up posters etc is not actually within the law. It happens and sheer inertia will often mean they aren't moved but there's no right to place them on public or private property.

@KimikosNightmare

Apologies if I am not making myself clear, but I did specifically said posters that are within the law. Such posters do exist.

Try not being so deliberately obtuse/argumentative eh?

[quote Leafstamp]@KimikosNightmare

Apologies if I am not making myself clear, but I did specifically said posters that are within the law. Such posters do exist.

Try not being so deliberately obtuse/argumentative eh?[/quote]
What posters are "within the law"?

There is no right to stick posters up so none of them are "within the law" regardless of their content - unless you have hired a commercial billboard or the sort of notice board you find in supermarkets/ community centres or the like. The vast majority are not "within the law" including this slate.

Try not to be so obtuse.

unless you have hired a commercial billboard or the sort of notice board you find in supermarkets/ community centres or the like.

You’ve answered you own question there.

Other examples:

• the signs people put up in their own gardens around election times

-notice boards in workplaces/charities etc

This is just re posters. I also mentioned leaflets and other campaigns etc.

Whether the slate as the subject of this thread constitutes a punishable, criminal offence, maybe it dies in theory. In practice not so much. I’d rather come across interesting quotes (that I may agree with or not) than littering.

Some graffiti is now considered as street art rather than a criminal offence.

Anyway, we’ve managed to derail a bit so ill not comment further other than I’d rather see people engaging in politics/campaigns in a way that suits them (within the law as I clearly said above) than not bothering at all.

You (general you) have the "right to roam" in Scotland. If I found this slate or ribbons or stones with slogans on our family farm I would remove all of them, regardless of what they were promoting.

Perfectly understandable on your own land. But we have a lot of common land, too. With various signs and interventions on it. Including noticeboards, cairns, memorials, waymarkers, pylons, geocaches, trig points, initials carved in rock/trees, flags, etc.

@BlueberryCheezecake

We see posts like this all the time, multiple posters here can't even handle being asked to tick their gender on a form, or asked politely what pronouns they use

Why do you think it’s reasonable to ask someone who doesn’t believe in gender ideology what their gender is? Often those questions are compulsory and the only option for non-believers is to tick a box saying “prefer not to say”, which suggests they do have a gender but don’t want to share it.

And while I can’t speak for others, if anyone “politely” asked me what pronouns I used, I would say that, in line with the correct use of English, I don’t use gendered pronouns for myself and it’s entirely up to other people how they refer to me when I’m not in their presence and they don’t know my name.

@ArabellaScott

You (general you) have the "right to roam" in Scotland. If I found this slate or ribbons or stones with slogans on our family farm I would remove all of them, regardless of what they were promoting.

Perfectly understandable on your own land. But we have a lot of common land, too. With various signs and interventions on it. Including noticeboards, cairns, memorials, waymarkers, pylons, geocaches, trig points, initials carved in rock/trees, flags, etc.

Actually Scotland has very little, if any "common land". Some local authorities own "common good land" but that's something entirely different.

The examples you are citing are items which are placed there at the instance of the landowner to give guidance to access takers or a statutory undertaker as part of its remit for its particular role Where they aren't provided in that manner, they are there only with the consent of the landowner, whether positive or inertia.

The slate is litter and is against the Code of Conduct for the New Forest. Just because you (general you) might support its cause doesn't stop it being litter. My reaction to "gender critical" litter is exactly the same as it would be to trans activist litter.

The vast majority are not "within the law" including this slate.

Who cares. Do what you want on your own land. You don't get to dictate what other people put up on their own land, or in public. Unless of course you plan to rush round taking them all down. You'll be busy. For the rest of your life.

@EricCartmansGoatee

The vast majority are not "within the law" including this slate.

Who cares. Do what you want on your own land. You don't get to dictate what other people put up on their own land, or in public. Unless of course you plan to rush round taking them all down. You'll be busy. For the rest of your life.

The slate is litter. Whoever put it up doesn't own the New Forest.

I wasn't dictating anything- the people dictating are those supporting the idea that it's fine to stick random posters , etc up on land they don't own.

The slate is litter. Whoever put it up doesn't own the New Forest.

I don't care. You don't own it either.

I wasn't dictating anything- the people dictating are those supporting the idea that it's fine to stick random posters , etc up on land they don't own.

I'll stick them up wherever I want. Cry a river.