Help - waded in to JKR row on fb

[crunchermuncher]

A friend on fb has posted something about Fantastic Beasts. One of his friends (who I don't know) has commented that 'The author is a bitch'.

I would really like to say something that stimulates people to think, rather than just blindly swallowing the 'she's a hateful transphobe' line. I also know that this is a particularly woke audience, so any replies need to be minimalist and carefully crafted.

So far I have replied 'why?' And got the predictable reply about her views on trans people. I have asked what specifically she has said. I'm now trying to step away from the conversation for a day or so in case I become enraged by the inevitable nonsense and say something I will regret!

Any tips on a) what to say and
b) how to not lose my shit?

I hate seeing a woman being abused online by another woman, just for standing up for women's rights. It's depressing.

To be honest, I don't hold out a lot of hope for a satisfactory discourse with someone who describes women as 'bitches'. I also think you've already asked the pertinent question, which is, 'What specifically did she say?'

I would keep repeating that question, and resist any attempt to derail or obfuscate the discussion, until you get a satisfactory answer (and then come back and tell us all what it is).

The only thing I might do if I'd got this far is post a link to the actual essay with a comment such as "did she say these things somewhere else because all I can find is this?". Maybe someone will read it.

What's it they say? Don't get into a mud wrestle with a pig? You'll get covered in mud and the pig enjoys it. Some people won't think, no matter what you say - they can't let themselves.

Good luck with that! People who think that JKR amis a transphobic tend to lack basic critical thinking skills. They’re just repeating what some dopey blue tick on twitter has said.

Honestly, I think the right thing is to ask questions as you have. If they don't explain their position, I'd be inclined to post something like:
"You see, I read her piece about single sex spaces and didn't see anything in there that was transphobic. Here's a link to her piece. Which part do you think is a problem? "

That way, anyone else reading the convo can also read her piece, which is no bad thing.

If they still don't say anything, I think I'd probably end up saying something like "don't you hate it when women get called bitches simply for having an opinion?"

Yes, that's the only way to go:

Could you give examples of bad things JKR said in her own words?

With any response from you being:

But that's not JKR in her own words. Can we stick to her own actual words?

Ooh, all great responses thank you.

I agree about the mud wrestling with a pig / playing chess with a pigeon thing. I'm sure I won't change that person's mind, but hoping someone lurking will see it and maybe think twice. Just maybe. Sowing the seeds of critical thinking.

Your last paragraph is a good standalone reply: "I hate seeing a woman being abused online by another woman, just for standing up for women's rights. It's depressing."

@ditalini I love that pig metaphor. So true.

Your last paragraph is a good standalone reply: "I hate seeing a woman being abused online by another woman, just for standing up for women's rights. It's depressing."

Especially when they're doing it at the behest of aggressive and misogynistic men on social media, especially twitter.

Same here OP, in my case it was my own status and an old school acquaintance who has just unfriended me. Apparently saying transwomen aren't women, transwomen are transwomen is deeply offensive.

I asked twice for them to provide direct quotes of her transphobia and I was told just to look on her Twitter. Obviously I made them aware that I had already and agreed with everything she said. That was it. Unfriended and they didn't get the chance to see my reply detailing some of the death threats JK received from the supposedly marginalised community I was so hateful towards.

It's infuriating and depressing, but I just hope there are people who are reading, who might not have been aware exactly what is happening to JK, who can find out exactly what is happening to women who speak up for our rights.

I think it’s worth engaging. Not because you’ll change the mind of the woman who described her as a bitch - she sounds too far gone - but you’ll have lots of silent readers who may feel emboldened to speak up next time.

You will never get an answer to ‘what did JKR say that was transphobic?’ I have asked that question so many times and they either ignore you or just come out with generic nonspecific nonsense about ‘she makes trans people feel unsafe!’

It’s very frustrating but take heart that your post will be seen by people who may be on the fence or who know all of this is wrong but lack the courage to speak up.

This can be a handy one to pop into the comments.

Citadel that's brilliant!!

Did I miss something? What are you recommending to pop in the comments @Citadel ?

Ask as if you're missing something, say you can only see direct quotes like the one Citadel posted and a lot of Twitter people claiming she said terrible things but you can't see the these things themselves "did she delete them? What were they? It's such a web to try and sift through, but I'd hate to call someone a bitch without actually knowing."

@Iveputmyselfonthenaughtystep

Did I miss something? What are you recommending to pop in the comments *@Citadel* ?

Yep, cants see it on my phone

Or my ipad

Honestly, I think the right thing is to ask questions as you have. If they don't explain their position, I'd be inclined to post something like:
"You see, I read her piece about single sex spaces and didn't see anything in there that was transphobic. Here's a link to her piece. Which part do you think is a problem?

Yeah, I tend to think this is the best approach. People don't change their mind through argument, gentle probing works better.

Link to her blog so people can read for themselves? Though I remember once seeing someone (an academic) on Twitter reprimanding a friend for posting it without a trigger warning, so you might get some flack even doing that! Honestly, I think just standing up for her will give onlookers a bit more confidence, seeing a nice normal person giving an opposing view. You don't need to say anything devastatingly clever.

I can't see it either. I'm on my phone.

I don't understand why this is still a heavily debated subject. We all interpret things differently based on our own experiences and views. Some people think the things JKR has said are transphobic, some think they're critical/insensitive and some think they're completely correct, so no one will ever get a "satisfactory answer" to these questions unless they align with their own beliefs.

@Blackbird1234

I don't understand why this is still a heavily debated subject. We all interpret things differently based on our own experiences and views. Some people think the things JKR has said are transphobic, some think they're critical/insensitive and some think they're completely correct, so no one will ever get a "satisfactory answer" to these questions unless they align with their own beliefs.

Indeed. Im all for interpretation. But if we feel our interpretation is so correct that we feel justified in calling someone we've never met a bitch, I think it is reasonable for others to question why we think that.

If we cannot answer, I feel we have some thinking to do.

@Blackbird1234

I don't understand why this is still a heavily debated subject. We all interpret things differently based on our own experiences and views. Some people think the things JKR has said are transphobic, some think they're critical/insensitive and some think they're completely correct, so no one will ever get a "satisfactory answer" to these questions unless they align with their own beliefs.

Do you not understand that this is debated because it's affecting how police behave, how laws are framed. Do you not understand that this is debated because the police support calling a person accused of rape a 'woman', and what the ramifications of that are?

Im happy to explain my interpretation, and for others to disagree.

On the other hand, I think unjustified name calling is unhelpful to public discourse.

Just my interpretation though, you might feel its really positive?