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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Council of Europe's report on hate against LGBTI people in Europe completely misrepresents gender critical feminism

108 replies

WeeBisom · 13/12/2021 17:39

So the council of Europe wrote a report, and they don't like gender critical feminists very much. Report is here;

assembly.coe.int/LifeRay/EGA/Pdf/TextesProvisoires/2021/20210921-RisingHateLGBTI-EN.pdf

The report is really weird because they get so much of the basics wrong. The the report defines an 'anti gender' stance as "reject[ing] the notion that gender is a social construct, distinct from (biological) sex and not based on a binary." I'm not sure what the 'binary' part is supposed to mean ( I've always thought discussions of the binary is a red herring), but I DON"T reject the idea that gender is a social construct that is distinct from biological sex. So I am supposedly 'anti-gender' by being a gender critical feminist, and yet they can't even correctly describe what it is I supposedly believe.

The report then says that the gender critical movements "work to maintain unequal gender relations in the name of “tradition”, “family values”, “Christian values”, or a so-called “natural order”. Attacks on abortion, access to contraception, comprehensive sexuality education, same-sex marriage, gender, legal gender recognition, access to transition-related medical care, trans and intersex persons’ participation in sport, and ratification and implementation of the Istanbul Convention all form part of this agenda." But this seems to throw many disparate movements together. Gender critical feminists don't believe in christian values or the natural order. They aren't trying to get rid of contraception, abortion or sex education. It's like the report doesn't quite know what its target actually is.

Later on, the authors sulkily report that a self ID law failed in Spain because it didn't get a majority in Parliament despite 70 trans people undergoing hunger strike. The fault is laid at the feet of gender critical feminists " that portray trans people as a threat to society, and in particular to women, deny the identities of trans and non-binary people, suggest that they cannot be trusted to know who they are, and depict parents who are supportive of their trans children as criminals."

They then describe the UK gender critical movement:
"In the United Kingdom, anti-trans rhetoric, arguing that sex is immutable and gender identities not valid, has also been gaining baseless and concerning credibility, at the expense of both trans people’s civil liberties and women’s and children’s rights."

So wait...it's anti trans to say that sex is immutable (meaning unchanging.) But earlier, the report said that it was ANTI gender to reject that sex and gender are separate and different. Gender critical feminists say that gender could change, but sex certainly cannot. So why is it anti-trans to believe the straightforward scientific fact that human beings cannot change their sex? And we also have that weasel word 'valid' pop up. I imagine what they mean is we refuse to believe that a male declaring himself to be a woman just IS a woman in every relevant sense of the word. But that again is because of the sex/gender distinction!

They go on: "The ‘gender-critical’ movement, which wrongly portrays trans rights as posing a particular threat to cisgender women and girls, has played a significant role in this process, notably since the 2018 public consultation on updating the Gender Recognition Act 2004 for England and Wales. In parallel, trans rights organisations have faced vitriolic media campaigns, in which trans women especially are vilified and misrepresented. The gender- critical campaign – which continues to gain momentum, power and financial support – has been instrumental in creating a situation in which legal gender recognition processes still require a clinical diagnosis of gender dysphoria, and remain inaccessible to non-binary people and anyone under 18."

Most chillingly, the report has a recommendation for politicians; "Such anti-trans narratives, wrongly portraying trans rights as a threat to women and to others’ rights and insisting on binary categorisations of sex and gender that do not correspond to lived realities, are becoming increasingly pervasive in Europe. Effective criminal and anti-discrimination legislation are more crucial than ever in this context."

I don't know about you, but I'm a little insulted that gender critical feminist are supposedly this massive, evil threat and yet they can't even be bothered to work out what it is we actually believe and campaign for. I imagine that they have to keep spreading lies that we are all fundie christians or else other people will realise we are speaking perfect common sense.

For instance, they continually repeat the lie that trans rights are not a threat to women's rights. Well, if women's right encompass the right to single sex spaces, but any male gets to declare he is of the female sex then there clearly IS a clash. I don't know why they continue to deny that there is a clash here. Simply clapping their hands on their ears and going lalala there's no conflict doesn't actually make the conflict go away.!

OP posts:
PurgatoryOfPotholes · 14/12/2021 10:06

Erm, artichokeleaves, that may not be as absurd as it sounds.

twitter thread

The Supreme Court of Mexico @SCJN has turned into reality what many of us anticipated, and others said was an unthinkable exaggeration. Age determination is declared a fundamental right, inaugurating "age identity" and "transetarian" status 🧵 1 t.co/pkieCtpFgw

This was obvious to anyone who wanted to see it. The Court now explicitly states it. The "logic" behind "gender identity" is the same as with age. To control one's own biography, it is the will of the subject that determines reality.(2)

Court states that civil registry must provide legal certainty; but certainty about the reality that the subject claims to be truth. Allows both lowering and raising the age, as long as there is no "indication of bad faith". (3)

twitter.com/jthenriquezc/status/1467937862125600773?t=NPUQUCmiTPxwpwy_S--cvg&s=19

If you click through, there is a screenshot of the statement, but it's in Spanish which I don't speak.

Beckert · 14/12/2021 10:09

if you don't support trans women being treated the same way as cis women, you do not support "the same rights"

Exactly. I don't support transwomen having the same rights as women. Because as born males their needs are not the same as women. In the same way as I don't support people claiming the same rights as people with a disability, when those people don't have a disability.

I support human rights. And in the UK every one has human rights. What they don't have are the specific rights afforded to some people to meet their specific needs around their protected characteristic, as defined by the equality act. Trans people already have their own provision within the equality act.

Artichokeleaves · 14/12/2021 10:12

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Erm, artichokeleaves, that may not be as absurd as it sounds.

twitter thread

The Supreme Court of Mexico @SCJN has turned into reality what many of us anticipated, and others said was an unthinkable exaggeration. Age determination is declared a fundamental right, inaugurating "age identity" and "transetarian" status 🧵 1 t.co/pkieCtpFgw

This was obvious to anyone who wanted to see it. The Court now explicitly states it. The "logic" behind "gender identity" is the same as with age. To control one's own biography, it is the will of the subject that determines reality.(2)

Court states that civil registry must provide legal certainty; but certainty about the reality that the subject claims to be truth. Allows both lowering and raising the age, as long as there is no "indication of bad faith". (3)

twitter.com/jthenriquezc/status/1467937862125600773?t=NPUQUCmiTPxwpwy_S--cvg&s=19

If you click through, there is a screenshot of the statement, but it's in Spanish which I don't speak.

Which is utterly bloody terrifying and yes, was forecast years ago by women saying if any one characteristic can be identified into under law by choice, then all can. Because it was obvious to anyone with half a brain.

Coming soon to your kid's nursery: a fifty year old chap in a nappy. Agenda unspecified. I'll take bets now on the 'it'll never happen', and I can probably retire on the proceeds.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 14/12/2021 10:19

Put a supplemental bet on it happening in Canada first.

article

A Canadian man who was married, with seven kids, has left his family in order to fulfill his true identity - as a six-year-old girl.

In an emotional video with gay news siteThe Daily Xtrain collaboration withThe Transgender Project, Stefonknee (pronounced ‘Stef-on-knee’) Wolscht, 52, of Toronto, says she realized she was transgender - rather that simply a cross-dresser - at age 46, and split from her wife, Maria, after she told her husband to 'stop being trans or leave'.

Now, Stefonknee lives with friends who she cans her 'adoptive mommy and daddy' as a six-year-old girl, dressing in children's clothing and spending her time playing and coloring with her adoptive parents' grandchildren.

Stefonknee says her 'adoptive' family, which consists of an older couple and their children and young grandchildren, are completely accepting of her identifying as a little girl.

She says she's living as a six-year-old girl because it's something she could never do when was in grade school.

'I can’t deny I was married. I can’t deny I have children,' she says in the video. 'But I’ve moved forward now and I’ve gone back to being a child. I don’t want to be an adult right now.'

Stefonknee further adds: 'I have a mommy and a daddy - an adopted mommy and daddy - who are totally comfortable with me being a little girl. And their children and their grandchildren are totally supportive.'

She says she previously lived as an eight-year-old girl, until the couple's granddaughter asked her to be the younger sister instead.

'A year ago I was eight and she was seven. And she said to me: "I want you to be the little sister, so I’ll be nine." I said: "Well, I don’t mind going to six." So I’ve been six ever since.'

In the winter, Stefonknee earns money by plowing snow, and when she's at home with her adoptive family, they color and 'do kid's stuff'.

Continues: www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3356084/I-ve-gone-child-Husband-father-seven-52-leaves-wife-kids-live-transgender-SIX-YEAR-OLD-girl-named-Stefonknee.html

CheeseMmmm · 15/12/2021 02:17

Fascinating.

Refer to LGBT+ when talking about increases in hostility etc. Laws enacted. Etc.

Then essentially focuses almost entirely on trans people.

States that anyone who is ?? about gender> sex. Is against LGB full stop.

Urges counties to act against sex> gender stuff.

Cites countries where homosexuality is a big issue, as well as women's rights being attacked.

As if they have trans as a big consideration. When it's homophobia that's driving it.

Not surprised.

The fact they are characterising women who are FFS as s huge massive problem. When thinking about the countries including those where women and girls rights are being removed, undermined, rolled back.

Whatever. Arseholes.

Then only talk about trans people.

CheeseMmmm · 15/12/2021 02:19

'Now, Stefonknee lives with friends who she cans her 'adoptive mommy and daddy' as a six-year-old girl, dressing in children's clothing and spending her time playing and coloring with her adoptive parents' grandchildren.'

No mention of Steph being in a sexual relationship with iirc both their 'parents'?

EishetChayil · 15/12/2021 09:04

Christian values!

{laughs in gender-critical Jewish}

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