Male reporter presenting as male identifies as female & is let into changing rooms

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

I thought given how discussions are going on some other threads it was worth pulling this out of the Zara thread

6ft bearded male presenting reporter says he identifies as female & is let into womens changing rooms.

this is what the issue is. If any man can say he is a woman & get instant access to womens spaces then that is massively open to be abused

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10300295/Bearded-6ft-reporter-let-female-changing-room-stores.html

@Rightsraptor

1000 comments, most of them not happy this is happening.

@CatherinaJTV: you haven't been paying attention. We've been saying all along that it's the male that's the problem not the trans. Since humans can't change sex TW remain, as males, a statistical risk to women.

If you let just anybody in then just anybody will come in.

CatherinaJTV has their own agenda so never pays any attention to anything that is said on here.

@CatherinaJTV

Is he one of those cis men who are exploiting selfID to sh*t stir? Seems men are the problem, rather than trans women.

As trans women are really trans identified men, than yes it’s a problem with men! HTH

Caterina -

Well exactly! Males accessing things that used to be single sex, because they have a dodgy reason, or point to make, or whatever. Is and always has been the point!

You can't SEE gender gender identity.

And I'm sure you're well aware that it is unrelated to gender presentation. There is NO NEED WHATSOEVER to change your presentation at all.

If a male with s trans identity feels comfortable presenting as a man, in any and all ways. Then that's perfectly fine.

We all know that judging a woman because of clothes, beard, physical characteristics including if person has deep voice and wide shoulders and no huge muscles upper body and beard beard and very tall like 6'3 and... All characteristics say bloke.
Is transphobic and cruel and anti feminist.

We all know that people know which area is right for them, and they know better than anyone else.

Plus how do you know he's not trans? He might not be out yet.

He might have volunteered for this because of his as yet hidden gender. Who are you to say not a woman?

Comments like that are othering, oppressive, very upsetting. How does anyone know his gender identity? If he's just not out.

Being denied entry might have impacted his confidence in living as his true self.

Insensitive problematic post.

Well done the Mail (and definitely sharing that parallel universe feeling). Now let's have a deluge of big beardy journalist blokes showing the implications of this in all women's spaces. They won't listen to us, they might listen to them

These thing do raise the issues in the general population.

Just thinking.

There have been s few times this done and reported.

Just realised they have all been about changing rooms in shops.

Presumably because there are staff to say yes no, everyone familiar with them in general life etc.

So that's cool. I just wonder about the things that are not just walk in and ask and get yes no.
And whether this example will connect to the others in readers minds.
Or whether there will be an end result of public reaction shops change.
(Retail, appeal to customers important. May go spend on unisex cubicles to make all happy.).

Will this translate in the minds of public to the rest? Prisons, sports etc? And if so will there be more varied reaction?

Dunno. Just a thought.

Good thing this though obv.

Also an observation about how the gender> sex arguments, which change often due to events making the existing argument too obviously wrong/ unpleasant.

The speed that the new arguments get embedded massively widely is incredibly fast!

Poster earlier used new argument that I started seeing maybe few months ago and is now THE argument.

That dodgy/ criminal sex offences are carried out by CIS men.
Women and girls whether cis or trans are targeted.
Therefore excluding males who identify as women/ girls, on the basis of their bodies (trivial, body policing) is cruel.
Trans and cis women and girls should be unified in tackling cis male violence.

Cis men and boys are the issue. TW are victims. These crimes are simply not committed by males who are trans. Anyone who does this is by definition cis.

Interesting to see it on this thread.

And isn’t it far better that a journalist explores this issue and brings it to wide attention before a woman or child is harmed ? Not quite sure what catherina is implying but surely it could not be denying that ALL males commit sex crime at a significantly higher rate to females.

Tell you what catherina, if you are positing that a subset of males are risk free, please provide the supporting statistics.

Otherwise, you are simply endorsing future harm for women and girls and you should own that.

In addition to being careful coming home at night, walking in less well trafficked places and the usual female safety things, I no longer use changing rooms in shops unless they are attended by a member of staff and have a properly closing cubicle door. But mostly try on at home now to avoid the issue.

Same for public toilets unless they are in a busy shopping centre with a lot of foot traffic. My nieces and nephews never enter public toilets without an adult accompanying them.

I can't hope to know what reason the male bodied individual is in there for so I have had to change my own behaviour and reduce my freedoms.

@CheeseMmmm

Also an observation about how the gender> sex arguments, which change often due to events making the existing argument too obviously wrong/ unpleasant.

The speed that the new arguments get embedded massively widely is incredibly fast!

Poster earlier used new argument that I started seeing maybe few months ago and is now THE argument.

That dodgy/ criminal sex offences are carried out by CIS men.
Women and girls whether cis or trans are targeted.
Therefore excluding males who identify as women/ girls, on the basis of their bodies (trivial, body policing) is cruel.
Trans and cis women and girls should be unified in tackling cis male violence.

Cis men and boys are the issue. TW are victims. These crimes are simply not committed by males who are trans. Anyone who does this is by definition cis.

Interesting to see it on this thread.

Please do not presume that everyone agrees to be classified as "cis".

Women and girls (by which I mean, adult and non-adult human females) should not be tasked with tackling issues created by males, whether or not they suffer from body dysmorphia or a desire to break the bounds of social stereotypes in terms of dress, behaviour, interests etc.

You cannot change sex, regardless of how you identify.

@CheeseMmmm

Plus how do you know he's not trans? He might not be out yet.

He might have volunteered for this because of his as yet hidden gender. Who are you to say not a woman?

Comments like that are othering, oppressive, very upsetting. How does anyone know his gender identity? If he's just not out.

Being denied entry might have impacted his confidence in living as his true self.

Insensitive problematic post.

Changing rooms like bathrooms are divided on the basis of sex, not the made-up and fluid so-called gender identity.

Ah yes, of course! It's males calling themselves women and accessing women's changing rooms that are the problem. Unlike...... males who call themselves women who access women's changing rooms.... 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Can we please not normalise the use of 'cis' it's deeply offensive @CheeseMmmm

Well yes exactly. How do we women tell the difference

You aren't allowed to tell the difference, that is the point, You have to allow men, all men, to do whatever it is they want, and if it goes wrong, and you get hurt, its your fault for allowing yourself to be in that situation.

@TheBermudaTriangle I thought @CheeseMmmm was paraphrasing and parodying, not actually advocating those views.

I hope the Mail on Sunday keep going on this.

Changing rooms like bathrooms are divided on the basis of sex, not the made-up and fluid so-called gender identity.

That section you quoted from cheese is sarcasm. She's repeated all the Genderist arguments about why you can't assume the gender of a bearded male.

@CheeseMmmm

Also an observation about how the gender> sex arguments, which change often due to events making the existing argument too obviously wrong/ unpleasant.

The speed that the new arguments get embedded massively widely is incredibly fast!

Poster earlier used new argument that I started seeing maybe few months ago and is now THE argument.

That dodgy/ criminal sex offences are carried out by CIS men.
Women and girls whether cis or trans are targeted.
Therefore excluding males who identify as women/ girls, on the basis of their bodies (trivial, body policing) is cruel.
Trans and cis women and girls should be unified in tackling cis male violence.

Cis men and boys are the issue. TW are victims. These crimes are simply not committed by males who are trans. Anyone who does this is by definition cis.

Interesting to see it on this thread.

Maybe straight men are the danger but TRAs are creating the problem, there are far more of them campaigning for this access than there are people who are as far as anyone knows straight men.

Hilarious to see [cath] assume this reporter identifies as male. He told the assistants he identified as female. Even if he identifies as male the other 5 days a week that would still make him trans , are you just assuming he’s LIED in all these shops just to see if he can?

@CatherinaJTV

Is he one of those cis men who are exploiting selfID to sh*t stir? Seems men are the problem, rather than trans women.

Finally!

How many months has it taken for you to understand what we have been posting all along?

When someone starts on their transition route, they have to live as their desired sex and one of the things doctors tell them, is to use the women's loos, dressing rooms etc. This is under the radar stuff, done without the permission of women and been going on for years. I think our agreement was never sought because in the early days, this was thought to relate to only about 5000 trans-sexual people (surgery and all). The reality is turning out to be a very different kettle of fish.
We have to get these additional gender neutral loos happening pretty damned quick. We need male/female and gender neutral and that is my only compromise.

Under the radar, and I admit that NATPALT, and although the route to the GRC is not simple, any man who is a predator will not object to the or complexity or time to get a GRC because the end result is access. Self-id deserves the sunlight it is now getting. Unfortunately in their zeal, TRA's have broken a trust that was forged with early transitioners and women. We will now be in a position where the nodding agreement originally given by many women has been withdrawn

@MrsOvertonsWindow

This is of course what women have said will happen all along. Just as Lia Penn - the Pennsylvania Uni transwoman swimmer currently trashing all the women's swimming records is demonstrating what women said will happen to women's sport. As well as the many many thousands of children deciding (in primary and secondary schools) that they must be trans - demonstrating yet again what women have said about the impact of social contagion on young children. And on it goes. Women's rights and child safeguarding being dismantled in front of our eyes

There is a very sad thread on here somewhere in which the OPs children have shunned her for being transphobic (her crime was not to sheepily agree that JKR is transphobic and to ask if they've read the article.)

But what I found even more disturbing was that her children claimed OP was in denial about her own trans status as she usually wears trousers, has short hair and works in a male dominated profession. I find it heartbreaking that a generation thinks these are signs of malehood. Do they also think a tendency towards short hair/trousers/male dominated professions should be treated with drugs and chest binding?

@CatherinaJTV

Is he one of those cis men who are exploiting selfID to sh*t stir? Seems men are the problem, rather than trans women.

See, this is the problem with people who support this ideology, they don't actually understand what they are supporting. LiIke my friend, when I tell her of these cases she says ' well, it sounds like they aren't genuinely trans'. THAT'S THE POINT. When anyone can say they are whatever they want and everyone else is coerced into accepting that on faith in all circumstances, then there IS no 'genuine trans' .