Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Scottish 'sex census' for children will *not* be anonymous

77 replies

ArabellaScott · 05/12/2021 14:30

BBC report yesterday:

'The government insists the census is confidential and voluntary.'

www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-59518427

However the Herald has broken the story that it's neither anonymous nor voluntary:

'the Herald on Sunday has seen privacy documents over the scheme that show that local authorities can act on behalf of children if any answers raise concerns.

This has raised fears that that the controversial survey is a 'named person scheme' through the back door. '

' While the UK's General Data Protection Regulation gives individuals the right to object to the processing of personal data, the information states that where the processing of personal data is for scientific or historical research, or statistical purposes, "these rights to object is more restricted".

...

And it states that parents cannot object to the processing of health and wellbeing data.

"As the data we process is lawfully gathered and necessary for the performance of a task carried out for reasons of public interest, you do not have a right to object to the processing of your personal data," the document states.

It can also not be deleted. '

www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/19762206.new-snoopers-charter-scots-ministers-sex-census-kids-not-confidential/

Some councils are rejecting this survey, I am heartened to see, and several others are reviewing: www.heraldscotland.com/business_hq/19762197.scottish-governments-sex-census-kids-rejected-eight-councils/

OP posts:
Gottasinggottadance · 05/12/2021 14:35

I am going to be writing to my LA to see if they will be running it - I can't see the whole article as I am not a subscriber. I am hugely uncomfortable about the content and manner this survey is to be carried out, and if it does happen in my LA, will be making it very clear to my DC they don't have to complete it.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/12/2021 14:40

I don't know why it was ever said to be confidential, as far as I know each survey is explicitly linked to individual pupils. I think confidential was being used to mean "we won't link data" as opposed to "we can't link data".

Shedmistress · 05/12/2021 14:42

Is this the one where they ask kids when they last had anal sex?

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 05/12/2021 15:41

@Gottasinggottadance

I am going to be writing to my LA to see if they will be running it - I can't see the whole article as I am not a subscriber. I am hugely uncomfortable about the content and manner this survey is to be carried out, and if it does happen in my LA, will be making it very clear to my DC they don't have to complete it.
'- The eight that have refused to participate are Falkirk, East Lothian, Midlothian, Aberdeenshire, North Lanarkshire, West Lothian, Aberdeen and Highland.

Twelve councils have said they are reviewing its content - East Dunbartonshire, East Renfrewshire, West Dunbartonshire, Argyll and Bute, South Lanarkshire, East Ayrshire, Shetland, Fife, Inverclyde, North Ayrshire, Scottish Borders, Comhairle nan Eilean Siar. ''

OP posts:
Original poster
ArabellaScott · 05/12/2021 15:41

@Shedmistress

Is this the one where they ask kids when they last had anal sex?
Yep. Or at least, something along those lines.
OP posts:
Artichokeleaves · 05/12/2021 15:58

But we absolutely can't under any circumstances ask adults their biological sex. Cos reasons.

Can we go back to 2012 and re boot or something?

littlbrowndog · 05/12/2021 16:00

It is the one asking about anal sex 14 year olds

Why does SG ask children these questions.

Would they ask adults these questions without telling how the data is used. And why are they asking these questions

No safeguards at all. What about children who have been abused

KimikosNightmare · 05/12/2021 16:32

I hope other Councils follow suit.

This census is not anonymous.

Whilst it is extremely unlikely that criminal penalties would be applied to two 15 year olds having consensual sexual activity it doesn't alter the fact that sex between them is still illegal and they are being asked to incriminate themselves.

PicsInRed · 05/12/2021 16:36

Abusers could surely use the data to specifically target particular vulnerable children?

It seems a dreadfully dangerous idea.

RepentMotherfucker · 05/12/2021 16:40

That's not normalising anal sex at all. When your teachers are asking you about it at school Hmm

Shedmistress · 05/12/2021 16:43

@littlbrowndog

It is the one asking about anal sex 14 year olds

Why does SG ask children these questions.

Would they ask adults these questions without telling how the data is used. And why are they asking these questions

No safeguards at all. What about children who have been abused

It also implies in kids minds, that anal sex is a completely normal thing do participate in, otherwise why ask when the last time was?

I mean we are not allowed to make comparisons on here with people that might want to plug this into kids minds, so I won't.

But for fucks sake, where are the fucking adults here? Why is this going unchecked? Who is safeguarding kids in this whole shitshow?

Gottasinggottadance · 05/12/2021 16:43

@littlbrowndog

It is the one asking about anal sex 14 year olds

Why does SG ask children these questions.

Would they ask adults these questions without telling how the data is used. And why are they asking these questions

No safeguards at all. What about children who have been abused

Exactly - many adults wouldn't want to answer these questions. Should MSPs all be sat in a room together and asked to answer incredibly intimate questions about their sex lives and they aren't even guaranteed anonymity? How would they like that?

How will the survey be administered - if in a classroom, surely it's not hard to imagine children catching sight of others' answers and then talking about them to other kids.

Shedmistress · 05/12/2021 16:43

Snap whilst I was writing that out.

It makes me so fucking angry.

Original poster
ArabellaScott · 05/12/2021 16:50

How will the survey be administered - if in a classroom, surely it's not hard to imagine children catching sight of others' answers and then talking about them to other kids.

Yep, in a classroom.

OP posts:
RepentMotherfucker · 05/12/2021 16:55

A 14 year old engaging in anal sex is being abused.

So we are asking children to give us data on their abuse. No counselling, no sense of having disclosed, no framework around this, nothing.

These people live in a bubble don't they?

Disgusting.

Melroses · 05/12/2021 16:56

From what I have gleaned on twitter, the 'survey' linked to a number that is the same number that is used for contact/id details and academic record.

Is that the case?

KimikosNightmare · 05/12/2021 16:59

If that's correct, this has survey hits new depths of unacceptability.

Shedmistress · 05/12/2021 17:00

@Melroses

From what I have gleaned on twitter, the 'survey' linked to a number that is the same number that is used for contact/id details and academic record.

Is that the case?

Every day I think I cannot be any more shocked.

Every day it happens.

Every fucking day.

Alektopteryx · 05/12/2021 17:05

ScotGov are gr§§ming your kids, then making a list which they may or may not make available to others. It's as simple as that.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 05/12/2021 17:08

This is as sinister as Saville's unsupervised access.

There is something very murky going on in the Scottish Government.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/12/2021 17:11

As far as I can tell the rationale for the survey is unknown, the researchers who will have access to the data are unknown, the development of the methodology is unknown, and yes the survey has a unique ID linking to each child.

YourenutsmiLord · 05/12/2021 17:13

Dumfries and Galloway being ignored as usual Grin

PicsInRed · 05/12/2021 17:16

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

As far as I can tell the rationale for the survey is unknown, the researchers who will have access to the data are unknown, the development of the methodology is unknown, and yes the survey has a unique ID linking to each child.
What could go wrong, eh?

Lemme guess, the child's school and residential address are included on their profile?

Soontobe60 · 05/12/2021 17:22

@RepentMotherfucker

A 14 year old engaging in anal sex is being abused.

So we are asking children to give us data on their abuse. No counselling, no sense of having disclosed, no framework around this, nothing.

These people live in a bubble don't they?

Disgusting.

I once attended a safeguarding session run by social workers. At one point we were asked to think of something that had happened to us that we’ve never told anyone about because it’s too awful. We were then told that we would be asked to share that with the person sitting on our left - but not to worry as they would keep it secret. Cue lots of teachers muttering that they weren’t happy doing this. The trainer then made the point that this is what children are being asked to do day in day out, usually to complete strangers (asocial workers, police etc) and for us to think about how it made us as adults feel. Asking children to disclose what to them could be a deeply held secret, via an online questionnaire without any support or follow up, or even without the guarantee that it will be confidential smacks of a massive disregard of children’s well-being.
spinachpie · 05/12/2021 17:23

It's common in social surveys to include a clause that the survey will be anonymous unless there is evidence of significant harm, eg abuse, involvement in terrorism. In some countries this is a legal requirement. In this case, the response would be de-anonymised for that participant only and the relevant authorities notified.

Is this not something that would normally happen anyway in a school if staff became aware of potential abuse?