Overwhelm from news relating to murder of women by men

[parentingperson]

It just never stops. There is always at least one story in the news where a man has taken a women's life. Sometimes he knows the woman, sometimes not.

Sometimes the woman is going about her day, at a bus stop a couple of minutes from home at 6pm.

Sometimes the men are in positions of power and use this to entice a woman into their car.

Sometimes they murder the whole family and friend that was staying over also involving rape of the two girls.

Sometimes the woman is found dead having been attacked and left in a bush and whilst there is some reports on it, the sad death barely makes a ripple.

These are all examples in recent months and it's becoming quite overwhelming in a way I haven't experienced before.

I felt this yesterday when I was looking at the news: a 12 year old girl at a Christmas light switch-on stabbed to death by a gang of boys; a teenage girl getting the bus to meet friends killed by a man; a 65 year old woman found with extreme injuries in her own home and a male stranger arrested; a man charged with the cold-case murder of a young woman and rape of a teenage girl; the police referring themselves for investigation after mishandling the case of a young woman killed by her stalker; a woman missing and a man arrested on suspicion of murder.

I'm sure there were other stories I didn't see.

When Owen Jones and his ilk sneer at women's fears of male violence as 'moral panic,' this is what they are being smug about. They have no idea what it's like to negotiate the world as a woman, dealing with regular small, nasty incidents and knowing that any one of them could turn into that big incident where your worst fears do come true. They are so lucky they can laugh and patronise women about it.

It seems to be daily at the moment. It's grim.

It is overwhelming op. I agree.

It is overwhelming. I just don't know what to say.

Yes. I feel the same.

Everything you said, esma.

I think OJ and his friends must be privileged enough to only think about this stuff in a hypothetical way. For many of us, shit has already happened and our fears are a sensible reaction.

I feel the same. The news last night that the man who murdered the family and the visiting friend is now also charged with raping the little girls just felt like the final straw.

Has it got worse or are we just more aware?

@SomepeopleareTERFSgetoverit

I feel the same. The news last night that the man who murdered the family and the visiting friend is now also charged with raping the little girls just felt like the final straw.

Has it got worse or are we just more aware?

I'm not sure and that's what I was thinking too.

Age as well somehow makes the world seem less safe as perhaps when younger you just don't consider the risks in the same way.

I think women are more aware and patterns are being seen, links being made.

Imagine if the trans rights movement hadn't split women apart from each other? I think there'd be a hugely forceful movement to say STOP.

Yes I'm feeling this too. It's horrific that women are being subjected to this level of male violence in 2021.

The risks were there but the intensity wasn't. Pre internet we wouldn't here about a lot of it, but the internet also now connects and encourages those who exhibit deviant and violent behaviours. It bombards minds from a young age to be desensitized to violence, especially against females.

At 12, an exchange with a bunch of lads would've been name calling. Bitch, slag, dickhead, wanker etc. Then you walked away. My only physical fights were with other girls.

I was never afraid of my peers, never occurred to me that the boy sat next to me would rape me in the toilet. I was hyper aware of men though from a young age. Creepy uncles and pervy, leery adults. Unwanted hand on my back or gross comments etc. The worst between say 13-18. (I looked younger)

I agree it is overwhelming. I've just been I tears reading about the 12 year old in Liverpool. Every day there are more incidences of men and boys killing women and girls. It's horrifying that men like OJ don't take it seriously. But that's very much part of the whole VAWG problem isn't it? Another woman dies horribly, shrug and move on. ignore the effect on the lives of bereaved families and women and girls who are trying to live our lives.

I did read about the man who raped and murdered his partner's 11 year old daughter, murdered his partner, her 13 year old son and an 11 year old girl on a sleepover, but it's telling that yesterday's news was so full of male violence that even that especial horror was crowded out of my mind when I posted above. It does feel that the nature of today's media means that stories that would once have been headline news are now so humdrum they are only found way down on the page.

Personally, I've always been aware of male violence. I grew up in a very rough area where it was an observable reality, a tangible threat in the air, not some theoretical fear. These kinds of stories always resonate with me, and all the impractical advice handed to women annoys me. What good is telling women to avoid certain areas when they are stuck living there? How is a woman who works nightshifts, because they pay extra, meant to avoid walking alone in the dark? The Owen Joneses and Laurie Pennys of this world are out of touch in more ways than one.

I agree, OP. It's utterly, utterly shit.

I've been handling it by focussing on the things I can do to make things better - writing, complaining, researching, campaigning, donating, etc.

I find that throwing my energy into positive action to counter all the horrible things in whatever small way I can helps me to handle it better from a mental health perspective and to feel less overwhelmed and defeated by it all.

The fact you've even come on here to talk about it is a hugely positive thing you've done - yes, it's overwhelming and feels like it's getting worse (or perhaps being reported more, or we become more aware of the patterns as we gain more life experience, or a combination of factors, who knows), but also, more women are noticing and talking about it now.

I have had many, many experiences in the past (some decades ago, some simply pre #MeToo) where I've been criticised and shouted down (by men and women) for even suggesting that male violence against women is an actual thing and have been told it's unacceptable and sexist to say such a thing a NAMALT, Not My Nigel, etc.

So while the violence appears to be getting worse, I think it's also that the connection between male violence and females being harmed is being highlighted in ways it wasn't socially acceptable to do even five or ten years ago because of the patriarchy's hold on society, politicians and the media. I think having more women in politics is helping to highlight the issues too.

I think the fact that people are openly encouraged to talk about male violence against women and to acknowledge the patterns without being shouted down and called a man-hater is actually a really positive and necessary step, even though it feel shit for women to be confronted with those patterns. We're on the right track.

When I see people like OJ saying that using a wrong name is “literal violence” I want to ask them what they would call raping and killing a child.

Whilst the issue of men killing women is utterly hideous and I also feel overwhelmingly upset by it, I do think it's important to note that more men and killed by men than women are.

I know that won't be popular on a feminist board and I'm sorry for any offence caused.

Facts are important though. It's male violence that is the problem here.

@SomepeopleareTERFSgetoverit

When I see people like OJ saying that using a wrong name is “literal violence” I want to ask them what they would call raping and killing a child.

They'd probably need to check how the male who did the raping and killing identified before forming an opinion or considering it newsworthy.

@Leafstamp

Whilst the issue of men killing women is utterly hideous and I also feel overwhelmingly upset by it, I do think it's important to note that more men and killed by men than women are.

I know that won't be popular on a feminist board and I'm sorry for any offence caused.

Facts are important though. It's male violence that is the problem here.

Male violence very much is the problem but male violence towards other males tends to follow a different pattern to male violence towards women. It also isn't propped up by historical, physical and systematic inequality.

It's ok for us to focus on male violence against women and girls here.

It's male violence that is the problem here.

Can you not? It’s male violence against women that is the problem being discussed here. It manifests in specific patterns which are different t from the patterns of male violence against men, and the pattern of victimisation is also completely different. Women and girls are attacked for being women and girls, men are not attacked for being men. Now, this is the Feminism board, as you corrrectly noted, and your intervention is unwanted, as you correctly anticipated. Women here are dealing with the mental and emotional impact of what seems to be an escalating campaign of violence directed at women because of our sex.

You don’t know what that feels like. Have some respect and just leave women alone. Even if you want to debate, this is obviously not the thread. Start one of your own. I won’t be responding to you further.

You worded it perfectly PaleGreen Ghost. I'm really sorry for any offence caused. Please disregard my post.

allmywhat - you seem to think I am male, or at least that I don't know what being the victim of male violence feels like? That's not fair and not accurate.

@Leafstamp

Whilst the issue of men killing women is utterly hideous and I also feel overwhelmingly upset by it, I do think it's important to note that more men and killed by men than women are.

I know that won't be popular on a feminist board and I'm sorry for any offence caused.

Facts are important though. It's male violence that is the problem here.

This is the equivalent of saying all lives matter.

Women are entitled to consider how the wider issue of male violence affects them as women, just as disabled people or gay people might want to discuss how it affects them in light of their specific circumstances and characteristics.

The poor state of social care in the UK affects a wide range of people, but it doesn't mean that people who grew up in the care system or who have specific disabilities shouldn't be free to discuss it in light of their own circumstances and shared characteristics.

There are lots of issues that affect a wide range of people, but if every group ist qualify everything they say with this fact, then they are inhibited from advancing their own rights in any meaningful and efficient way.

The right to freely associate and discuss issues is a basic human right and is enshrined in UK law, and although you might not have known that, you must have had some idea that you were saying something unreasonable as you instinctively apologised for any offence caused as you were saying it.

Leafstamp, no need to respond to my post as I see we cross posted!

Men are killed in different ways, for different motivations and have different fears. Men tend to be killed by yobs, gangs, career criminals, football hooligans and drunks. It's all very overt. A woman has to worry about that gang of yobby teenagers walking towards her but she also has to worry about that quiet-looking lone man, the taxi driver, the delivery guy, the man who isn't flagging his intentions but could be planning to turn at any minute. The ways in which females are killed also have an extra layer of horror. It's less usual for adult males to be kidnapped, tortured and raped before being murdered.

More men are murdered than women but I did see a statistic from a few years ago that showed a man in the UK is slightly more likely to be a murderer than a murder victim, whereas a woman is significantly more likely to be a victim than a murderer. I think that affects women's outlook.

There's a thread running at the moment by a women who is being targetted by a psychotic ex. She has very real fears that she could be the next statistic.
She could do with some support
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4400244-Completely-terrified-of-my-ex?msgid=112842980#112842980

I don't know any men who are regularly scared to walk home in the dark, or scared to walk into a pub alone, or scared to get into a train carriage that only contains men at night.

The fear of male violence impacts on women's lives in a different way and we are constantly modifying our behaviour accordingly. We learn to walk in groups, to laugh it off when strange men say offensive things to us because we are too scared to escalate it.

As women there are countless things we do all the time to try to keep safe. Men, generally, do not live under this shadow.

I wonder what the rates for male on male murder would be if men had been taught to behave more like women?

When Owen Jones and his ilk sneer at women's fears of male violence as 'moral panic,' this is what they are being smug about. They have no idea what it's like to negotiate the world as a woman, dealing with regular small, nasty incidents and knowing that any one of them could turn into that big incident where your worst fears do come true. They are so lucky they can laugh and patronise women about it.

This. I will never ever see men like Owen Jones as my moral superiors. If they are the right side of history I'm proud to be on the wrong side.