Transgender athletes should not have to lower testosterone to compete, IOC says as it changes guidelines

[Escapedgoats]

news.sky.com/story/transgender-athletes-should-not-have-to-lower-testosterone-to-compete-ioc-says-as-it-changes-guidelines-12470620
Sorry if this has already been posted.

But this idea that a totally untreated male could compete with women is obviously preposterous, too far for even Harper, and not what Harper wanted. Harper wanted transwomen like themselves to compete, not any male.

So if I understood that Today programme interview correctly:
Transwomen with lowered testosterone competing against women who didn't go through male puberty = fair competition.
Transwomen with voluntarily lowered testosterone competing against transwomen who aren't on any hormones = unfair competition.

RIP Women’s Sport.

Thank you for all the enjoyment and excitement you have given spectators, the inspiration you have provided for generations of young women and most of all the chances to excel and have their achievements celebrated you have given to determined and dedicated female athletes. Your untimely death at the hands of the IOC will be mourned by at least half the worlds population.

Ps Can I have Saudi in the sweepstake, (or any other benighted mysongynistic patriarchal Middle Eastern Middle Ages mindset country). They have never liked having to produce a token woman to make up the mixed teams the IOC asks for, now they don’t have to and will probably be fielding their largest ever Olympic team in Paris.

When is the media going to join the dots and call out the institutional misogyny in sport

they are complicit in it. Look at the Sunday Times sports section - 24 pages and half a page to a page about womens' sport.

The Guardian is no better.

It’s disappointing there’s been nothing in the Times about this

Just listened to the Science of Sport podcast, and it actually has made me want to cry. I can’t believe the injustice, and how helpless women are in these situations. You would think there would be a way to appeal the decision.

@Anotherhill

Just listened to the Science of Sport podcast, and it actually has made me want to cry. I can’t believe the injustice, and how helpless women are in these situations. You would think there would be a way to appeal the decision.

I too want to cry. You can hear the controlled anger and frustration in that podcast.

The trouble is the decision had been made in an opaque way, by an organisation that is totally opaque. I have my suspicions why this is the case but as it’s based on nothing concrete I’ll keep schtum.

Why is there not more media coverage? I just don’t get it?

@Anotherhill

Why is there not more media coverage? I just don’t get it?

Misogyny? Or corruption? Or both?

Let's not forget the huge amounts of money in elite sport. Now all up for grabs.

Can we have some details please on the precise individuals who wrote and signed off on this decision? Not let them hide behind the IOC banner.

Which men (and hopefully no women were involved in the removal of other women's rights) were involved in this decision?

Ross Tucker podcast is out ON the IOC’s transgender guidelines. “First reactions”.

twitter.com/Scienceofsport/status/1461625636146003971

play.acast.com/s/realscienceofsport/s3-e27-why-the-iocs-recent-guidelines-on-transgender-athlete

olympics.com/ioc/members

Here are the members of the IOC. Haven't looked through properly yet, but Princess Anne is on the list.

I think 36 of the 102 members are women (it's early so may have miscounted).
There are 44 honorary members and 2 are women.

Do the IOC publish each members voting record or comments in debates? so that we know which members decided to erase women's sport?

I'm frantically searching the IOC website now. They do publish their "consensus meetings findings" with lists of attendees. I have found the 2016 one in relation to the subject. So hoping it will be there soon, they just haven't updated yet?

stillmed.olympics.com/media/Document%20Library/OlympicOrg/IOC/Who-We-Are/Commissions/Medical-and-Scientific-Commission/EN-IOC-Consensus-Meeting-on-Sex-Reassignment-and-Hyperandrogenism.pdf?_ga=2.101084802.2044661813.1637390231-856550744.1637390231

You know, I usually take my time to compose my posts, always try to be fair and reasonably polite and temperate in my language, the odd bit of snark notwithstanding.

But this decision doesn’t deserve that. It doesn’t deserve my time, effort or energy. Fuck off, IOC, you cowardly, weasly misogynist dick pandering shitbags. On your watch, we will now have men’s sport, and sport for male bodied misogynists and extremely exceptional women.

Thanks a fucking bunch.

I found my way to this issue through sport. It’s my foundational reason for dissenting from gender ideology orthodoxy. I will never give up. And neither will millions of other women.

www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1114025/big-read-ioc-eb

The journalist who wrote this article is obviously an expert in the field - anyone able to contact him and ask the relevant questions re voting history/comments in debates?

Just to add, I'm just not confident/knowledgeable enough to ask the questions myself. Not being lazy.

So Princess Anne is on the list? And is Sebastian Coe, what's happened to him?

Time for these persons to stand up and be counted.

Seb Coe is also on the list.

In a funny way I think that this is good. Right now there is the whole “but they have to reduce their testosterone” crap is if having testosterone only 10 times higher than the average women takes away all the advantages of a male body, male lungs, going through male puberty, male height and male muscle structure.

But now that is all gone. It is what everyone can see - men can compete in women’s categories if they want.

I am biased though - my dd (who podiums at nationals at her sport) is 11. I need all this to blow up before she reaches mid teens and it really affects her. I have time. It is the current 18 year olds who are going to be screwed by this.

On the bright side - dh was a junior international at one sport. He also took up a second one during lockdown and now is on a (recreational) team with a pro woman. Who would have thought a 45 year old with middle age spread could become a double Olympian! In two completely unrelated sports! And I’m not even joking.

Joanna Harper was listed as an attendee at the 2016 meeting. I wonder if they were at the 2021 meeting?????

@Anotherhill

Why is there not more media coverage? I just don’t get it?

A gagging order? Honestly nothing surprises me these days. The IOC need to be careful though Olympics has taken care to clear up its act and present as a fair sporting event. Now they're descending back into the gutter, they're going to end up a laughing stock like all off the other organisations that brought lock stock into gender ideology without a second's consideration.

They'll be seen as dirty and corrupt as FIFA and they deserve to be.

My sense is that Richard Budgett IOC medical director is ultimately responsible for erasing women's sports. Budgett lacks leadership in the face of lobby groups. Compare Richard Budgett to Greg Davies BBC Director General.

Lobby groups are going to lobby: that's their job

IOC as an institution and Richard Budgett IOC medical director had a duty to not allow their policy to be completely captured by lobby groups

As Bev Jackson said on LEADERSHIP:
"i think that we have to look in general at leadership and a profound lack of leadership and where does that come from. it comes from ignorance it comes from cowardice it comes from laziness. people who have not thought very long and deep about these issues will often say well that sounds a bit unpleasant it sounds a bit complicated let's leave it to the experts. and as i think most people in this room know the people who are self-appointed experts are not experts at all they are activists with a very specific agenda and if you leave it to these people to make decisions you do not end up with evidence based policy making and you go down a path which in some cases is extremely dangerous that is what we're here to discuss today now"
Conference

Richard Budgett demonstrates lack of leadership:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tokyo-olympics-threat-of-transgender-athletes-is-overstated-says-ioc-medical-director-nnft8q22v

"You have got to include all women if you possibly can," says the IOC's medical and science director, Dr. Richard Budgett:
www.attitude.co.uk/article/international-olympic-committee-medical-director-threat-of-trans-athletes-has-probably-been-overstated/25505/

As Jane Clare Jones said (in that video in PP timestamp 55:16) a lobby group *"is just doing what a lobby group does which is lobby it's the job of institutions not to allow their policy to be completely captured by lobby groups"^

It was the job of Richard Budgett and the IOC to not to allow their policy to be completely captured by lobby groups