Woman's Hour 18/11/2021 Nancy Kelley CEO of Stonewall

[Abitofalark]

From the programme notes:

"Nancy Kelley is CEO of Stonewall, the largest LGBT rights charity in Europe. She speaks to Emma about her organisation’s work and gives her reaction to recent high-profile withdrawals from Stonewall’s Diversity Champions workplace inclusion scheme, including the BBC."

Hmmm...yes, we've heard - and dissected - the previous pronouncement from that quarter about the BBC pulling out of the Stonewall scheme. Let's see what waffle and spin come out in this interview.

They didn't need to campaign for those things, Tawny.

If SW has between 7 and nearly 9 million a year they could just build them. They have the means to fix the waiting lists by building clinics, funding training, funding research, providing support which is objectively helpful.

They chose not to. I do wonder what on earth they do with all that money, though.

Fudge and mudge and a mass of contradictions and slitherings from the Stonewall boss. She agreed that the BBC should treat subjects impartially but in the next breath that Stonewall should have influence over BBC policy, while at the same time trying to avoid admitting that its lobbying and influence over organisations in its schemes incur any penalty for non compliance or gain marks for compliance.

She is a cosy wife and mother with wife and adopted children but she is slithery about admitting that Stonewall dictated glossaries of terms that exclude women's status and language such as mother, and washes her hands of responsibility for anything the Scots government did on that front. She taints lesbians with prejudice about whom they fancy but is not challenged specifically about the basis of lesbianism and therefore whether an allegation of prejudice is even relevant or legitimate so the slur is left hanging and certainly not disavowed.

She knows and hears no evil, sees no evil in her selective amnesia - knows nothing about AJ Rowling when it comes to the accusation of phobia but maintains the notion and smear of harm caused - and was not pulled up and asked What about harm to women and girls in public, in workplaces and schools? Knows nothing about Kathleen Stock but smears that there have been issues about her for a long time - would that be from when she dared to raise a question about the wisdom of allowing self identification given its implications especially for women? - is for freedom of speech in universities but slithers over any Stonewall responsibility for influencing what went on there.

Stonewall is on the back foot and will never forgive, much less acknowledge the contribution of AJ Rowling to women, including the L, which Stonewall is supposed to represent and which it hides behind within the blanket LGB, because what she did in speaking out was instrumental in bringing us to this point where Stonewall is having to slither about to obscure things it has been doing and has previously been so gung ho about.

This interview, trailing along in the wake of the two Belfast men Thompson and Nolan in their Radio Ulster podcast series, only serves to highlight the abysmal failure of BBC journalism over several years to interrogate the subject and the woeful fact that Woman's Hour, the very place that should have been all over it, censored its own presenter and weakly followed the identity band wagon at the expense of women, whose perspective it purports to represent.

In American Pie, one of the characters kept saying, with rising intonation, "that one time? at band camp?". All I can think of hearing Nancy Kelley speak.

@socialworker222

EB, Womans Hour, Broadcasting House London W1A 1AA

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@BaronessWrongCrowdRex

Hang on. If people can not change their sex, Nancy. How are transwomen literally women?

We have always been at war with eastasia.

I quite enjoyed this interview. I’m still confused as to how she accepts that biological sex cannot change and yet she literally thinks transwomen are women. I’m guessing it’s the belief over fact concept at play, though it would have been nice if she’d been asked directly how those two things can run in tandem with each other.

I do agree that the more rabid TRAs won’t have enjoyed that interview. It seemed to be very watered down and I wonder if her regular comments of how ‘historically’ Stonewall worked (2 years ago) is to mark a line in the sand for some new thinking and new guidance that will be more palatable to the general public.

Nicely said Abitofalark. Mailing BBC re EB as we speak and going back to WH for sure.

@Helleofabore

There seems to be complaint that EB interrupted nk and attacked her with aggressive questions.

I think they mean

EB didn’t interrupt enough and let NK expose her lack of critical thinking and paucity of argument as well as asking her the questions everyone has been dying to ask and more importantly have answered.

That was a breath of fresh air and such a change from even a couple of months ago.

"slitherings from the Stonewall boss"

I next to know nothing of Harry Potter lore but I laughed at this.

"She reminded me of Dolores Umbridge, which is ironic...!"

Bloody hell but you've put your finger on why her simpering pissed me off, RhymesWithOrange!

Yes, on the surface all pastel and giggly, beneath implacably wedded to an ideology and regarding those who will not bow to it as heretics and apostates - and less than people. She's also a coward unwilling to say the words 'yes she is a transphobe' - won't allow anything so definite to pass her lips, it has to be all obfuscation and insinuation. "Slitherings" indeed.

She reminded me of Dolores Umbridge

And reminds me of JKR's brilliance with names. No coincidence that the first name is a head -tilty 'sorrowful' veneer on the surname 'taking offence'. Sums her completely.

She is now Dolores Umbridge. I cannot think of her in any other way

I didn't realise how much money Stonewall had.

In our town the only LGBTq plus bar/cafe from where Pride was organised has closed down. They had support groups for Parents of lgbtplus kids etc.

Surely it would do more good to give the money to places like that?

I have sent positive feedback. The BBC are making up for lost time.

@BaronessWrongCrowdRex

Hang on. If people can not change their sex, Nancy. How are transwomen literally women?

Of course, the word 'literally' also means whatever it has been redefined as meaning in recent years, which explains everything.

That's what happens when definitions are made of jelly. You can make all kinds of contradictions make sense.

[quote Fariha31]@OvaHere Now that is interesting. I thought at the time she jumped ship before it sank. SW is a poison challace, my feeling is NK was the chump that got landed with it.
Which means they all knew from the start it was toxic rubbish, well anyone with any real brains.
Diden't Julie Bindel say that Ruth Hunt had said to her before they were given a bucket load of cash addopted the T, that she understood the conflict with womens rights?[/quote]
I think there is an awful lot of truth in this. I know someone who was encouraged to apply for the role when Hunt left, his response was 'wouldn't touch it with a bargepole darling.' Poisoned chalice is right. I'd feel a bit sorry for Nancy if I didn't think she's probably got kitten plates on her wall. She really does remind me of Umbridge.

Listening to it now. Emma is magnificent

@nauticant

"slitherings from the Stonewall boss"

I next to know nothing of Harry Potter lore but I laughed at this.

I know nothing of Harry Potter either - so don't get the reference - or even JK Rowling the author. I have never read a book or seen a film and I got her initials wrong. I felt vaguely that it was wrong but couldn't remember the JK.

Can’t wait to listen on Sounds! It’ll make my day!

I would like to see more discussion about the important differences between the transactivists and the rest of the trans community and about the fact that we might have a transactivists problem but that they are quite distinct from the rest of the trans community, and by seeing problems in this way it will be easier to resolve difficulties, and that more investigation into the many differences between the transactivities and the rest of the transactivists would be helpful. Please Emma.

*between the transactivists and the rest of the trans community

aaarrrggghhh phone!

Sent yet more positive feedback. It's important to let them know we appreciate them doing their job. My feedback ..
"I'm making a habit of this, but just wanted to say yet again what a fantastic interviewer Emma Barnett is. She was absolutely all over the subject. Yet another masterclass in interviewing. You are very very lucky to have her. The BBC ignored this issue for years and ignored the concerns of women, especially Woman's Hour. It is wonderful to see you doing your job. In the same week an ex BBC journalist shows us what terrible journalism is at Vice magazine, Emma is carrying the baton for why it's so important especially for women. Bravo Emma Barnett. Bravo.

It immediately made me think of "slytherins" Abitofalark. Apparently one of the four Houses at Hogwarts School.

Slitherin is one of the school houses in Harry Potter.

No wonder TRAs want #nodebate. If my ideology had more holes in it than a hedgehog's hoodie, I wouldn't want it scrutinised by anyone either. In fact, it was hardly even scrutinised - just pulled out into the light of day so we can all have a look at it.

Dolores Umbridge to a tee. I am reminded of that scene where she makes Harry Potter write "I must not tell lies" words which then appear to be cut into the back of his hand as he writes them. All the while simpering and stirring her tea.

It is really quite a close comparison if you know the books or films. At times I think Rowling wrote really frightening fiction, particularly in the later Harry Potter books, which contain scenes of torture and really adult stuff. There is a prophetic quality to them, which is quite chilling in the light of what is happening now.