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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

US professor wants to "rebrand" pedophilia

323 replies

andyoldlabour · 16/11/2021 15:24

Allyn Walker, an assistant professor at Old Dominion University, wishes to see pedophiles "rebranded" as "Minor Attracted Persons" - MAP's.
I doubt this will come as a surprise for many of us on this board, having seen the Challenor case (and others) unfurl.

thefederalist.com/2021/11/15/transgender-professor-at-old-dominion-university-rebrands-pedophiles-as-minor-attracted-persons/

OP posts:
poshme · 17/11/2021 16:42

@SocialConnection no- but that's one of the reasons why bringing in a conversion therapy ban is not as simple as it sounds.

They have to make sure that people providing 'help' and counselling for things like paedophilia and porn addiction aren't subject to this type of law. If you just ban anything that is trying to suppress a sexual attraction, you might also ban helpful things. (Like talking therapies about attraction to children or animals)

FloralBunting · 17/11/2021 16:48

[quote ImUninsultable]@BloodinGutters

Jesus christ. Learn to read.

I didnt say anything about extreme paedophiles or non-extreme pedophiles. I haven't minimised anything.

I am talking about campaigners, like the person being discussed on this thread. He is at a very extreme end of a campaign to change the approach. He wants to allow viewing of images and use of child sex dolls. That is an extremist view on a campaign which others have said should be limited to better and easier access to therapy without fear of being identified or targeted.[/quote]
OVERTON WINDOW.

You are merrily tugging it over, away from robust safeguarding. What an astonishing hill to choose to die on.

BloodinGutters · 17/11/2021 17:13

@FlyingOink

The notion of a man tortured by his fantasies or his compulsions is just bollocks, frankly.

It also equates paedophilia with homosexuality. The inability to be attracted to the opposite sex is not the same as having a fetish for abusing children, or even finding children sexually attractive.
There is nobody who is wired that way, who has an intrinsic sexuality of paedophilia. None. There are no heroic men fighting a wave of urges. That is a myth.
Men are not compelled by their sex drive. They might argue that they are, but they are not. They have free will.

The poor upset paedophile, ashamed of his desires and fighting the urge to abuse children, does not exist. He doesn't.

A fetish, a sexual proclivity, a liking for something is not compelling anyone to act on it. It's reinforcement with orgasms that cements a fetish. Nobody died from not being able to practice a fetish. Nobody died from not having sex.
Fetishes are learned behaviour. Researchers managed to give a bunch of volunteer men a foot fetish in one study. They didn't have that fetish beforehand.

And these things can be unlearned. Being attracted to children is not a valid sexual orientation like homosexuality or bisexuality. It's a series of visual and behavioural fetishes grouped around abuse.
All the men who claim to be non-offending use some form of child porn. Maybe it's just written porn. Maybe it's hentai porn. But there is not one of them sat on his hands, gritting his teeth and saying a hundred Hail Mary's to rid himself of his unwanted thoughts.

That whole notion just reinforces the idea that men have "needs" instead of wants, and that the male sex drive is this terrible yet awe-inspiring thing that poor brave men have to battle with. It. Is. Bullshit.

And this academic is such a try-hard, currying favour with men by agreeing that their sexual compulsions are so enormous they can't be expected to act like rational humans. Sad.

Of course it’s not the same as homosexuality.

Sexual orientation is which sex a person is attracted to. Children are a sex.

It’s why it’s really important to keep the legal definitions of sexual orientation in the equality act as relating to which sex people are attracted to. Because if sexual orientation starts including pansexual and asexual and demisexual and so in on then there’s no stopping them adding map sexual also.

BloodinGutters · 17/11/2021 17:13

*are not

Obvs

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 17/11/2021 17:16

I quite liked as it stood. Just needed an interrabang ?! and your ire would have been perfectly illustrated.

HoardingSamphireSaurus · 17/11/2021 17:16

Sorry, have a real one ‽ ‽ ‽ ‽ ‽ ‽

Datun · 17/11/2021 17:18

Yes, I'm also aware that most experts do not believe that paedophilia is something that can be 'cured'.

But the bit I'm not getting, is how the destigmatising of paedophilia would make the (in my opinion quite hypothetical) wracked with guilt, non offending, paedophile, more likely to seek help.

You pick up the phone. You make an appointment. No one knows.

Meanwhile, if you do de-stigmatise it, all the other paedophiles are a step nearer to its normalisation.

I mean, I don't believe any of it, anyway. I think it's a marketing campaign by paedophiles for paedophiles - the exact same suggestions come up, year in, year out. But I'm just interested in the logic behind people who disagree.

MauraandLaura · 17/11/2021 17:54

Jesus its not hard to see how these predators sneak in under the radar is it? We have posters on this thread going to bat for them on a fucking parenting website.

Peadophillia should never ever be destigmatised.

And yes they should absolutely put a bullet in their heads because once you have jerked off to images of children there is no coming back from that. You would absolutely broken for life and a permanent risk to the safety to children.

TheWeeDonkey · 17/11/2021 19:26

@MauraandLaura

Jesus its not hard to see how these predators sneak in under the radar is it? We have posters on this thread going to bat for them on a fucking parenting website.

Peadophillia should never ever be destigmatised.

And yes they should absolutely put a bullet in their heads because once you have jerked off to images of children there is no coming back from that. You would absolutely broken for life and a permanent risk to the safety to children.

Its unbelievable isn't it? And people getting all high and mighty and huffy because we don't have the required sympathy for child fetishists.

Those people are scum, but I am concerned some people who are paedos will gravitate to threads like this from the likes of Twitter where they're very welcome to share their stories, and have access to multiple vulnerable and gullible parents. It actually makes me feel very uncomfortable about this thread.

ChristinaXYZ · 25/11/2021 19:48

Interesting article in Unheard on this

unherd.com/2021/11/paedophilia-is-not-progressive/

IHateCoronavirus · 25/11/2021 20:43

I would like to think of myself as an empathetic, non judgemental person, but not with this. When it comes to the safety of children I the most judgemental person there is. There are societal boundaries for a reason!

AutomaticMoon · 27/12/2021 02:32

I’m not sure if it’s been mentioned that Allyn Walker advocates the use of child ‘porn’ (usually it’s called child abuse and exploitation imagery, in professional contexts) in his phd thesis and that 60 other professors defended him from the 4000 signature petition to remove him from post. University suspended him for his own safety and he quit in the end, claiming he’s being persecuted for being trans.

AutomaticMoon · 27/12/2021 02:38

Unfortunately, I have come across many examples of the continued attempts to re-brand and de stigmatise them. Virtuous pedophiles lauded in the mainstream media, minor attracted people being discussed with more compassion I’ve seen for the victims. On YouTube there are 2 ted talks with women talking about this, claiming the stigma is what pushes them them to sexually abuse children. One woman says at one point that somme pedophiles are also attracted to adults so not exclusively pedophiles, then she says that many child abusers are not pedophiles because they’re also attracted to adults. Which one is it then? It can’t be both. On Twitter I’ve seen them brazenly campaigning, they’ve made a pride flag now, one said I’m prejudiced even though a prejudice would be NOT based on personal experience. It’s v demoralising to see it all.

youkiddingme · 27/12/2021 03:24

If you have an urge to do something that you find morally reprehensible and want help to stop ourself acting on that urge, I don't see the need to even sit around considering what the 'branding' is.

Let's say I found myself wanting to kill people, unless I was too off my rocker to ask for help I wouldn't be thinking OH dear I can't ask for help unless they don't call people who kill others murderers.

If you want help, that would suggest you think it is wrong.
If you think it's ok, you probably don't want help.
What am I missing?

AutomaticMoon · 27/12/2021 05:41

I just don’t think it’s help they’re after, help they can get privately, but this public constant demand for compassion, literally claiming they are victims and because nobody chooses who to ‘love’. It’s a mental illness to be so removed from reality, but society seems to just indulge them.

Did anyone else notice Jonathan King on Twitter, he was posting pictures of the young girl Milly Dowling, who was kidnapped and killed. He posted her photo and that of her murderer, I presume because he thinks by comparison it makes him look good?! 🤮

AutomaticMoon · 27/12/2021 05:44

‘I was a signatory of a letter, initiated by the child protection organization Prostasia Foundation, alongside other experts on the prevention of child sexual abuse and sexual offending more generally, who called for such a change to Twitter rules, as the current best thinking in the field is that having a place online to connect to other MAPs reduces loneliness and social isolation, and therefore reduces the temptation to use the internet to act out on such sexual attractions.‘ 🤮🤮🤮

CheeseMmmm · 27/12/2021 06:38

Just caught up a bit.

Unsuitable you are vvv naive.

Paedophilia is sexual attraction to pre pubescent children.

Loads of men who sexually abuse children are not paedophiles.

Sexual assault/ rape is not anything to do with attraction.
Massive numbers of men and women manage to get through life without sexually attacking members of the group they are attracted to.
Because you know. Most people (when it comes to women the vast majority) don't engage in grooming, sexually abusing, raping others. Let alone someone who is very vulnerable.

Next up.

Why the fuck de-stigmatise the urge to sexually abuse children? Really?

Why not de-stigmatise rape, flashing, frotting on public transport, finding victims to enact sadistic sexual fantasies out on?

I mean, would mean they could seek help without fear of consequences. Reducing social stigma is vital.

CheeseMmmm · 27/12/2021 06:53

As I posted earlier.

The proposal to use minor attracted person, to reduce stigma.
Removes, obfuscates that it's about men who want to sexually assault pre pubescent children.
Minor is vague. Different in different countries. Under 18? Under 16?
That's a massively different thing to. Prepubescent children from birth up.
1yo. 3yo. Minors? Really? Babies. Toddlers. Little kids.

No thanks.

And then what about.
The fact that child molesters are often patient. Cunning. Ruthless. And with PIE etc. Thought what they did was fine.
All sorts of rationales then.

And NOW. Again we see it. Written by, I mean wtf, by all sorts of people in all sorts of contexts/ communication channels.

As with PIE, these 'virtuous paedophiles' (popular term few years back, not raping little children is virtuous?!) the ones I've come across.

Invariably turn out to be child abusers.

Google.
Or read link I put way back.
Loads of men who seek help in think it was Germany.
Have adult partners.
The man interviewed poor me. Sounded really dodgy, merrily related how nearly assaulted child at beach.

No no no no no

No.

All the no.

DaisiesandButtercups · 27/12/2021 08:05

I think we should drop the term paedophile. It means lover of children and is just as inappropriate as Minor Attracted Person. I agree with Julie Bindel that child rapist is the more accurate term or child abuser if the abuse doesn’t include penetration with a penis.

BlueberryCheezecake · 27/12/2021 16:46

@Skeumorph

I imagine some of the more intelligent TRAs are going to be cursing at this. Yet another example of not such a great look

Funny how that keeps happening!

Why does this have anything at all to do with trans people?
BlueberryCheezecake · 27/12/2021 17:27

@Megan1992xx

If we allow the madness of the trans lobby to deny biological reality it is inevitable that paedos will be flying in the slipstream!
People said the same about the gay rights movement back in the 80s too, it didn't come true then and we now recognise the people who said such things were bigots.
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 27/12/2021 17:30

@BlueberryCheezecake
www.newsweek.com/allyn-walker-virginia-old-dominion-university-pedophilia-minor-attracted-1653340

“ A statement by Walker after the resignation said that the research was intended to work towards preventing child abuse and had been "mischaracterized by some in the media and online, partly on the basis of my trans identity."”