US professor wants to "rebrand" pedophilia

[andyoldlabour]

Allyn Walker, an assistant professor at Old Dominion University, wishes to see pedophiles "rebranded" as "Minor Attracted Persons" - MAP's.
I doubt this will come as a surprise for many of us on this board, having seen the Challenor case (and others) unfurl.

thefederalist.com/2021/11/15/transgender-professor-at-old-dominion-university-rebrands-pedophiles-as-minor-attracted-persons/

[quote ImUninsultable]@Fariha31

Can you quote where I sais that most survivors of childhood abuse grow up to be abusers?[/quote]
They should feel completely secure seeking help for their urges. People, mostly, dont choose to be sexually attracted to children. Most people who are were sexually abused as children themselves.

Right here, or can't you read your own posts?

[quote ImUninsultable]@PingedPotato

If it is destigmatised then people are more likely to seek help.

The problem is that there is a fine line between destignmatising and accepting. We cannot let it cross that line.

They should feel completely secure seeking help for their urges. People, mostly, dont choose to be sexually attracted to children. Most people who are were sexually abused as children themselves. They shouldn't feel stigmatised because it prevents them seeking help.

The problem starts when it starts to be seen as acceptable, or just an alternative lifestyle or whatever phrases people come out with. There needs to be a strong, firmly held line that any acting in their urges (physical acts or viewing images) will come with heavy penalties. But being able to identify yourself as having this issue and seeking help should not come with stigma.[/quote]
No no no no! Don't peddle that malarkey!

The vast majority of abused kids do NOT go on to abuse kids. Even back in the 1990s that had been pretty thoroughly debunked. Given the difficulty collating the data the figures are a tad unreliable but, when data collection was made more robust the figures went from up to 75% of abusers reporting having been abused to just 4%.

Your starting point is incorrect. And that debases the rest of your post.

And a quick google will throw up various good standard studies from the 1990s onwards. The data change is consistent.

@WonderfulYou

Most people who are sexually attracted to children were abused children themselves?

Really??

If as a child you have been raised with abuse from adults, you are going to grow up thinking it’s normal for adults to have relationships with children.

The majority of abusers you read about will have been abused as children themselves.
Obviously it doesn’t make it right and not all children who were abused turn out to be abusers as adults.

Reality does not agree with you!

Pedophiles have plenty of opportunities before they offend to seek help.

Are they not able to Google counselors or therapists? Are they not able to ask for help?

They don’t want help. Let’s just be honest here . Pedophiles go to great lengths to access indecent images, and they seek out others like them. Yet somehow they don’t have that same energy to seek help. If they did want help they would get it. I don’t buy this “no access to help”. I also don’t buy this “they are too ashamed to seek helped” . Well it’s definitely a lot less shame to seek help before you offend compared to the shame of being a registered sex offender. It should be an easy choice.

We hear about child sex rings and child porn rings being broken up all the time. If these perverts had the same energy to get help for their repulsive and degenerate urges then we would not need to have stings. We would not need police searching out child abuse rings that share images, and pedophiles would be in jail less as their would be less of them. Do I need to point out the habit that some European men have to travel to SE Asia for the sex industry? Many of them to seek out sex with underage children? And I’m supposed to feel sorry for these monsters and have some understanding? Not in this lifetime.

Fuck their feelings. I don’t care if they feel judged and shamed. Good! They should.

Shame is exactly what you should feel jf you want to touch children.

I’m not tolerating this bullshit apologist soft hearted “what about the feelings of child molesters” nonsense! At all.

@MaryLamb there are quite a few research studies, using a wide range of methodologies, available online. The data isn't particularly refuted by anyone, other than online grouops of MAPS who want their sexual proclivity'to be recategorised as 'just' another fetish, another sexuality.

As ever I invite the naysayers to have a look for themselves. So they can see the weight of evidence the real world has collated.

Not suggesting you are a naysayer, @MaryLamb

I was thinking of PIE - as well as NAMBLA.

I do have respect for those who know their urges are very wrong and seek urgent help and keep themselves far away from any possibility of offending - but in this current age, I rather fear that many people, before too long, would come to a justification of 'this is who I am' - more 'diversity' to be 'celebrated' - and seek to make it just another identity, with those expressing any disagreement with it being labelled as phobic bigots.

Surely there's a reason for something carrying a heavy stigma, leading people who believe themselves at risk of offending to seek help before ever reaching that point, so that they don't end up bearing the stigma?

We don't tell violent gangs who engage in stabbing attacks that what they're doing is wrong - but nevertheless minimise it by rebranding knife crime as 'cutlery defence' - just to hammer the message home that it really isn't something they should be considering doing.

Hammer the message home? No sweets, we'd have to cushion that blow, pat the message calmly into place!

Yep, they are already claiming it's just another sexual orientation. Like being gay etc. Can't help it blah blah, innate...

Next we will all be branded phobic and bigots and told children can consent to relationships with adults............

Is it because some of use were much younger when PIE was around?

I remember being horrified by that when PIE made headlines in the local papers, back in about 1977.

It's all a bit deja vu for me. And just as preposterous now as it was then!

Hmm, PIE back again. What a surprise.

I'll stick to protecting children from sexual predators, thanks. I see no need to water down the English language to soothe the feelings of paedophiles.

Some miscommunication here...lPP said 'People, mostly, dont choose to be sexually attracted to children. Most people who are were sexually abused as children themselves.'
Which is not the same thing as 'most survivors of childhood abuse grow up to be abusers' (cf all rapists are men, doesn't mean all men are rapists).

So putting that aside.... of course there's no need to 'rebrand' paedophilia in order for people to seek help. Take the analogy of alcoholism - there's a stigma to being an alcoholic, but it seems well recognised that a first step in getting help is to accept that's what you are. The best known help org is Alcoholics Anonymous. There's the model to follow.

@ErrolTheDragon

Some miscommunication here...lPP said 'People, mostly, dont choose to be sexually attracted to children. Most people who are were sexually abused as children themselves.' Which is not the same thing as 'most survivors of childhood abuse grow up to be abusers' (cf all rapists are men, doesn't mean all men are rapists).

So putting that aside.... of course there's no need to 'rebrand' paedophilia in order for people to seek help. Take the analogy of alcoholism - there's a stigma to being an alcoholic, but it seems well recognised that a first step in getting help is to accept that's what you are. The best known help org is Alcoholics Anonymous. There's the model to follow.

I wasn’t claiming that’s what was said. I’m saying the vast majority of us don’t grow up to be abusers so there’s no fucking excuse for those who do, just because they might have been abused themselves.

[quote ImUninsultable]@NewlyGranny

Rebranding medical conditions actually does make a difference to people seeking help. Tale HIV for example. Used to be called GRID. People didnt want to seek help when they had the symptoms for that. Same goes for other diseases.

I'll admit this is different as it isnt a disease you catch which really shouldn't have any sort of negative thought connected to it in the first place. This is something entirely different. But the argument that rebranding to a less emotive name could help people come forward for help is quite solid.[/quote]
It’s not a fucking medical condition anymore than being a rapist or a murderer are medical conditions.

It always starts with language.

Just because not every paedophile becomes a child molester, doesn’t mean padeophilia should be destigmatised. It should be stigmatised and it should be shameful.

www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/child-sex-abuse-doesnt-create-paedophiles-60373

This article debunks the "mostly abuse victims" theory but does also say that actually there is very little that is clearly understood about pedophilia, partly because of the intense stigma which means that there is no data either on offenders who don't get caught/imprisoned (suspected to be the majority) OR on the pedophiles who don't offend as they basically never feel able to admit these urges and without any kind of information on those two groups there will always be very little known which makes it much harder to apply treatment/prevention.

Very well said @MarshmallowSwede!

God, I'mUnsuitable, you have the patience of a Saint! I have to hope you have left the thread now before you started banging your head against a wall! I also have to believe that some of these people are wilfully misunderstanding you. I have never seen such poor comprehension skills before on the feminist board.

@WonderfulYou

Most people who are sexually attracted to children were abused children themselves?

Really??

If as a child you have been raised with abuse from adults, you are going to grow up thinking it’s normal for adults to have relationships with children.

The majority of abusers you read about will have been abused as children themselves.
Obviously it doesn’t make it right and not all children who were abused turn out to be abusers as adults.

The official stats from what I recall are that 1 in 8 abused children grow up to become abusers. But those are American studies and only on boys and in very specific circumstances, like residential schools, which may not even be replicated to other male abuse victims. As women commit less than 2% of sex offences despite having a 1in 3 or 4 chance of being a victim before turning 16 it’s very obvious there is no direct link between being a victim of csa and becoming an abuser.

As the vast majority of abusers are male it’s much more likely that it’s male entitlement and need to have power over their victims that’s the cause same as it is with rape and murder.

Yes, and, as the studies I refer to show, currently it is believed that as little as 4% of child abusers were themselves abused as children

Nope. It does not need rebranding. Rebrand it and we normalise it. Everyone understands the word pedophilia. We know what it mess as me. It’s like the word rape. We know what it means. One word. Start desensitising it and it becomes cosy and it loses its impact. No no no.

The thing is, a lot of 'paedophilia' isn't about a literal sexual attraction to kids, that 'you just can't help'. It's about power and entitlement, and children generally are a lot more vulnerable than adults. That is what makes them 'attractive' to these people.

Yes, why would we need to rebrand the word 'paedophile?

@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet

Yes, why would we need to rebrand the word 'paedophile?

Exactly it's not like it's a product to sell

Goodness, the reading comprehension of some on this thread is very poor.

Saying ‘most people who abuse children were abused themselves’ is NOT the same as saying ‘most people who were abused go on to abuse’.

Why are people conflating the two….????

Can you quote where I sais that most survivors of childhood abuse grow up to be abusers?

“They should feel completely secure seeking help for their urges. People, mostly, dont choose to be sexually attracted to children. Most people who are were sexually abused as children themselves.”

Right here, or can't you read your own posts?

@RedDogsBeg

I’ve no idea whether Imuninsultable’s statement was correct but “most paedophiles were abused” is not the same thing at all as “most abuse victims become paedophiles”.

Like
“Most paedophiles are men” does not mean “most men are paedophiles”