Campaign in Scotland

[Cismyfatarse]

Please, if you live in Scotland, get the message to your MSPs.

forwomenscotland.eaction.org.uk/MSP

Follow the link and it is all very easy. If you can share far and wide, that would be great.

Interestingly only the Conservative used what I would consider to be the proper form of address for a formal response to someone one does not know personally.

He began "Dear Ms FlimFlam,"

SNP used "Dear Fluffy". Too personal. But avoids gendering doesn't it?

Greens used the very clumsy "Dear Fluffy FlimFlam" They certainly couldn't risk a Mr or Ms though could they?

I dunno

Why were women not in the hate crime bill. Apparently we are too complex

Politicians in my country are shite from top to bottom

Sue Webber Tory didn’t answer me. Have sent an email asking her why she hasn’t answered me

I added this to my email

I would also like to add that removing the word women from recent cervical cancer campaign in our country is exclusionary for women with learning needs and women who have English as a 2 nd language. 40% of women don't even know they have a cervix. According to joes cervical cancer charity

when in Scotland did women become a dirty word to say or use?

Yours sincerely,

I'm trying to decide whether to respond to any of them or not. I thought the Conservative was very on the fence. And the other two assuring me that the Equalities Act protects women's spaces falls a little flat when we know that this is not happening in practice already.

@FluffyFlimFlam

Interestingly only the Conservative used what I would consider to be the proper form of address for a formal response to someone one does not know personally.

He began "Dear Ms FlimFlam,"

SNP used "Dear Fluffy". Too personal. But avoids gendering doesn't it?

Greens used the very clumsy "Dear Fluffy FlimFlam" They certainly couldn't risk a Mr or Ms though could they?

Very interesting point! @FluffyFlimFlam

My responses were as follows:

SNP
Dear First Name

Green
Dear First Name ; Second Name

Conservative
Dear Ms Second Name

Labour
No reply (7 days)

@FluffyFlimFlam

I'm trying to decide whether to respond to any of them or not. I thought the Conservative was very on the fence. And the other two assuring me that the Equalities Act protects women's spaces falls a little flat when we know that this is not happening in practice already.

So far I've only responded to the most reasonable one. The ones that wanted to preach at me about how awful I was I just am ignoring. At least they know a constituent has this position and it will hopefully stop them JessPhilipping on the subject in future. Many of them seem to conveniently forget the bit about duties of representation and prefer to stick to their comfortable luxury beliefs, but there's not much I can do about that.

Yes. I don't think there's much point me writing back to the Green!

I might ask the other two if they've had chance to read Helen Joyce yet.

From Stephen Kerr Conservative;

Thank you for taking the time to write to me on the subject of reform to the Gender Recognition Act.

I find it unfortunate that the Scottish Government have turned what should be a very sensitive discussion into a very ugly argument.

I do not support the SNP’s plans to reform the Gender Recognition Act, and will be outspoken on the importance of protecting children from decisions made at a young age that will drastically change their life. I also have concerns that I will raise about what the proposed changes would do to women’s sport, women-only spaces, and women’s safety.

I hope that this debate can become less toxic, but the way the SNP have turned on people who disagree with their proposal has been disgraceful, and this too is something I will be working to resolve with my colleagues on the opposition benches in the Scottish Parliament.

I replied to the Greens asking if they had read my email properly as I wrote about women's rights & their reply only addressed trans rights 😆 I didn't want them to think their awful reply was sufficient and I don't need them to vote for me so 🤷‍♀️

I only recently sent mine and haven't had any responses yet. But prompted by this thread I checked my emails and saw the For Women Scotland thank you email.

I was a bit disconcerted that at the bottom of that email was

Dear (One of my regional MSP names)
[Copy of the default letter text]
Yours sincerely
[My name]

It was disconcerting because I actually wrote in my own words on the topic as I thought there were things to be said that hadn't been said in the default text and I altered the tone. It was informed by seeing some of the responses you had received. For example, I explained that there is a conflict of rights and that accessing female spaces is not a human right but a female one, just incase the Greens are actually reading these emails before responding with their copy paste job.

I appreciate the thank you from For Women Scotland is also just a template response, but I do hope the email I actually wrote was sent out. I put a lot of thought into what I wanted to say. It's a bit weird seeing something I didn't intend to send signed by "me".

@Cismyfatarse

Please, if you live in Scotland, get the message to your MSPs.

forwomenscotland.eaction.org.uk/MSP

Follow the link and it is all very easy. If you can share far and wide, that would be great.

Very confused as to what ‘irreversible treatments’ trans kids can get willy nilly on the NHS in Scotland. 36 month waiting list for a first GIDS appointment them usually a couple of years at least before any blockers are considered. Cross sex hormones not available until adulthood. Can you elaborate?

Can you elaborate, where your information is from Calmyourselfdown? Cross-sex hormones are available from age 16, not adulthood. Puberty blockers, which are not irreversible, have been prescribed within months after appointment, not years. And no one is talking about "willy-nilly".

Official data on the Sandford Clinic Youth service (under18s) is 32 months waiting time and 6 to 18 months from first appointment for treatment.

Adult waiting times to first appointment vary between 7 and 33 months, with the former in Inverness and the latter in Edinburgh. (data from April 2021 and July 2021 respectively) Again, it's 6 to 18 months after first assessment to treatment. That's according to Patrick Harvey, head of the Green Party in Scotland. Hardly someone to minimise wait times.

Useful site for the wait times: genderkit.org.uk/resources/wait-times/

Sandyford Clinic! Not Sandford

Very confused as to what ‘irreversible treatments’ trans kids can get willy nilly on the NHS in Scotland.

No idea where you picked up the "willy nilly" from, but FOIs show Sandyford referred 51 girls under the age of 18 for breast amputation surgery. See the Telegraph article. Although things will have changed with the pandemic the NGICNS steering group minutes stated the surgery waiting times were less than 3 months.

The Scottish NHS treatment protocol is actually designed to be 'stage not age' with provision for under 16s to access opposite-sex hormones. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing how many, as Sandyford state they have no way of knowing how many children, what age, or what sex, they have prescribed such experimental drugs to.

It can't be repeated enough because it is shocking-
BetsyM00
Sandyford state they have no way of knowing how many children, what age, or what sex, they have prescribed such experimental drugs to.

@2319inprogress

It can't be repeated enough because it is shocking- BetsyM00 Sandyford state they have no way of knowing how many children, what age, or what sex, they have prescribed such experimental drugs to.

That is dreadful. Why don’t they know. Don’t they keep records 🤷‍♀️

I have had my first response from Douglas Lumsden (CON) MSP. Same as previously posted on the thread.

I'm actually a bit gutted because he is responding to the standard text rather than the response I had written in the text box.

I hate that a letter I didn't write, that I think is less effective than what I did write, was sent out signed by me.

I'd advise anyone wanting to respond to MSPs on this issue in their own words look up the contact details of them separately and send the emails from their own email program as there seems to be a problem with the form.

Did anyone else have the same issue?

I appreciate that the response sent was on the same side of the issue and maybe it doesn't matter in the long term. But I am a party member of one of the political parties and really wanted to make a strong point on what I think the central issue is and a constructive alternative suggestion.

Urgh, it's so disappointing.

The point about me being a party member is because I may well meet the regional MSPs of that party and I would rather if I am condemned it to be my own words chosen with care rather than some standard text.

Another SNP. This one missed the briefing on stating that the Equality Act will protect women's spaces and went straight for "they're using those spaces already"

Thank you for taking the time to write to me on this important issue. I am aware of the content of the consultations on the proposed bill which you have outlined. I will explain my reasoning below for supporting these measures:
Reduction in time spent living in acquired gender:if you believe that someone should have a GRC before they can live in an acquired gender and access spaces as that gender, it seems contradictory to demand they do that for longer before being legally recognised. I support simplifying this process.GRCs themselves do not grant the holder access to any spaces – the spaces you refer to are already used by trans people. It is very unlikely you will be asked to produce a birth certificate in order to access the places you mention.Reducing the age:we recognise 16-year-olds as adults in most other areas of rights, such as voting, so I am not in principle opposed to allowing them to seek help if they are trans. The waiting period and length of the process are also very long.Removing the need for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria:I do not believe that a diagnosis of gender dysphoria should be required for someone to receive a GRC. The strides made in the ICD-11 by removing being transgender as a mental health condition are positive and I consider this reform to the GRA to simply be a case of the law catching up with advancements in medical understanding.
As you will likely know, both the Scottish National Party and the Scottish Green Party committed in their 2021 election manifestos to reform the Gender Recognition Act, allowing our trans community greater and simpler access to change the gender marker on their birth certificates. I was elected on the SNP manifesto and I firmly agree with that key article – this reform is necessary and long overdue.

In line with the agreement between our parties, this legislation will likely be introduced early in this parliamentary session. I believe that the people of Scotland have already expressed their resounding assent to these plans by offering a majority of their vote to parties that support reform.

I appreciate that there remain concerns about this legislation, and I am always willing to engage in the spirit of good faith with those who hold a differing position on this from myself. As a disabled woman and a feminist, however, it is clear to me that securing the human rights of another marginalised group takes nothing from my own.

I hope this has explained my position. Please do not hesitate to get in touch if there is anything else I can help with as your regional MSP.

Kind regards,

Emma

Emma Roddick MSP

I'm pretty sure people didn't vote SNP to offer "resounding assent" to allowing any male that wants to waltz into women's spaces. They probably thought they were voting in favour of perusing an independent Scotland... but perhaps that is just a side issue for the SNP now?

@FluffyFlimFlam

I'm pretty sure people didn't vote SNP to offer "resounding assent" to allowing any male that wants to waltz into women's spaces. They probably thought they were voting in favour of perusing an independent Scotland... but perhaps that is just a side issue for the SNP now?

Correct FFF. The main objective of the SNP is supposed to be independence for Scotland according to their constitution. This is what I voted for, not for any superfluous agendas hidden in their manifesto. Indy is a side issue, in fact it's a non issue now. But GRA and HCB, that's their priority.

Shockingly the SNP seem to be sending different replies. This belated one from my local SNP MSP is trying to take women's concerns on board - bolding is mine:

'Thank you for contacting me with regards to the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill. To comply with international human rights law, Scotland must have a system for obtaining legal gender recognition. To ensure this the Scottish Government has committed to working with trans people, women, equality groups, legal and human rights experts to identify the best and most effective way to improve and simplify the process by which a trans person can obtain legal recognition, so that the trauma associated with that process is reduced.

The Scottish Government remain committed to making necessary changes to the Gender Recognition Act that arise from this work at the earliest opportunity, while ensuring these changes do not affect the rights or protections that women currently have under the Equality Act.

It is clear that all organisations need to take account the Equality Act when any changes in policy are being considered. All rights - those of women and trans people - must be protected. This includes the protection of women’s safe spaces and this is why the Scottish Government is developing guidance to ensure that policy makers and service providers understand better how to ensure that the rights of women and trans people can be collectively realised.

The Scottish Government strongly supports the single sex exceptions in the 2010 Equality Act which allow for trans people to be excluded when this is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. This means that single sex services, like domestic abuse refuges or rape counselling, are protected. So too are single sex employment rights in relation to such services and the delivery of health care services, such as intimate examinations.

Our support for trans rights does not impact on or conflict with our continued strong commitment to advance equality for women and to protect women’s rights.
Under the proposals, people applying for legal gender recognition would:
• have to live in their acquired gender for 6 months (not current 2 years);
• continue to make legal statutory declarations they will live in the acquired gender for life;
• apply to the Registrar General, rather than the UK Gender Recognition Panel, a UK Tribunal; and
• continue to be subject to criminal proceedings for lying or making false declarations or applications.

The draft Bill on which we have consulted did not make any changes to the Equality Act 2010. Nor did it propose gender recognition for people under 16.

You will be able to follow the progress of the Bill once it is introduced to the Scottish Parliament here: www.parliament.scot/bills-and-laws/bills. "

Thoughts?

1. No such thing as international human rights law really? Just an excuse.
2. Does it depend how you define 'woman' and if TW are women especially after this proposed GRA change, they will then be able to access women's 2010 Equality Act spaces and protections, despite what she says?
3. Or is this a lone SNP MSP capable of free thought? (Not likely I know). Has Joanna Cherry had some influence here?

I don't trust any of them as far as I can throw them...btw.

@Fukuraptor my amended emails definitely went out (can see my text in the replies of a couple). Are you sure that your text didn't work? I wonder if you've got a numpty replying with the standard reply to the standard email regardless of what you actually sent! The greens reply didn't correlate to my email at all

Conservative:

Thank you for contacting me about the proposed reforms to the Gender Recognition Act.

A recent consultation on this legislation showed that four in ten organisations did not support the proposed reforms, which include reducing the time it takes for people to legally change their gender from two years to three months, and allowing people aged 16 and above to apply to change their gender.

These consultation responses confirm what we already knew – this is a sensitive topic and opinions are firmly split. We must protect women’s rights and take concerns that those rights are being eroded very seriously. For now, we await the details of this legislation and stand ready to scrutinise each aspect of it.

The Scottish Conservatives will not stand by and allow this SNP-Green Government to push this legislation through Parliament without all parties’ concerns receiving due consideration. There must be a full and informed debate on this issue and that this can only truly be done once we see what legislation is being brought forward.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact me on this issue.

SNP:

Thanks for your email.

Yes, I am aware of the proposals you mention and I share several of your concerns.

I very much agree that there should be safe spaces such as hospital wards, refuges, changing facilities and toilets where women and children do not have to interact with ‘intact biological males’. I also agree that removing the need for a gender dysphoria diagnosis is concerning. In fact I have met with some transgender people who are not in agreement with this either. They consider that gender dysphoria is a condition which should be independently medically assessed. And they also consider that a change of gender is a serious step, should not be undertaken lightly, and should certainly not be rushed. So clearly there are different views even among trans people.

As I understand it, children are not affected by the proposed legislation.

On the specific point of single sex prisons, I did meet with the organisation ‘Keep Prison Single Sex’ and subsequently wrote to the Scottish Prison Service. I attach their reply and I have to say it concerns me as well. However, at least there is to be a review as you will see in their letter.

We have not quite got to the stage of voting on Gender Recognition but it is certainly an issue which is on my agenda. I hope I have reassured you that I am also concerned about this subject. However, if you wish to discuss any of this further I am happy to do so.

Almost fell off my chair at the SNP one. Grumblings within the party?