Hung out to dry in Ireland

[Udouhun]

I just feel like self ID was introduced with zero thought or consultation. So now we're all supposed to sit here and pretend that biological sex doesn't exist? I'm fed up with it and I'm fed up with men encroaching on my space. I really admire the fight back in the UK.

Is there any way we can shine some sunlight on from Northern Ireland?

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

Is there any way we can shine some sunlight on from Northern Ireland?

I guess the Nolan podcast did some great work recently in exposing just what gender ideology means and what Stonewalls intentions are. Just keep talking about it, which I know is difficult in real life.

TENI is our version of Stonewall and they are just as corrupt (they have recently had their funding suspended over accounting irregularities). Another gravy train.

@FlyingOink

After a court case the Irish Courts ruled that it was unlawful to identify children when they subject of a court case even if they were the victims of crimes. Parents of murdered children were not allowed to name their own children or name the person convicted of the murder. The Irish media had a legal obligation to remove all potentially identifying information.

That's madness in a country where there have been several finds of mass graves for children.

If it hadn't been changed it would look like no children were ever the victims of any crime. Perfect for covering things up. Just think, under that legislation someone like Savile would have free rein really. Impossible to name him or his victims, all prosecutions done in secret, no way to appeal to the public for witnesses or further victims. Really stupid piece of legislation, I'd never heard of it before now.

The original legislation was protect children within the court system.

It came to light just after the 2 boys were jailed for the the rape and murder of a young girl.
Prior to the ruling you could name the victim but not the perpetrators.
Simple things like news reports would have to exclude identifying details eg "the funeral takes place to day of girl found dead on Tuesday we are unable to provide further details due to a court ruling"
The law was partly changed per the report below

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ban-on-naming-child-victims-of-homicide-lifted-from-today-1.4557575

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

Is there any way we can shine some sunlight on from Northern Ireland?

You could ask that nice man Stephen Nolan to have a look at the lobbying and process that resulted in Self-ID legislation being shoe-horned in on foot of Marriage Equality (how different could two things be?) with no public debate or discussion. And how the planned legislation was changed at the last minute to go full-on Self-ID with no reference to any medics of any description.

And maybe he could look at the make-up of the group meeting to discuss extending this shit-show to under 18s and magicking up a third gender so we can document the non-binary (civil servants and TEN*).

And while doing that he could question why TEN and their side-kick BeLngT* who have a very specific lobbying agenda have been allowed to present themselves as the go-to "experts" on this issue whether for parents of gender non-conforming kids, schools struggling to work out how to handle all related issues, media, authors of textbooks etc etc etc

And if he had a bit of time left he could look at the machinations of TEN* and whatever is going on in there (including how someone as vitriolic as their now former CEO ever got appointed and allowed to spew bile and advocate violence on SM). And why a national paper would have nominated such a person as "woman" of the year just months after said person arrived in the country so with no track record of doing anything of any merit here (and that's before you discuss the sex of the person).

And maybe a little bit of a poke into their funding and finances.

And then he could look at the documentation and advice that the likes of BeLngT are bringing into schools and whether it is legal (never mind ethically acceptable) to advocated secrecy from parents.

And the fucking nuttery of the DoE suggesting all school toilets should be unisex.

And then he could turn his attention to the HSE and the attempts to remove the word woman from health related literature (though no need to look at the men's health related literature of course), the contrived use of the phrase "pregnant people" etc etc etc

And then he could look at whether there are any sex-based protections for women given our inability to use the word "sex" in legislation leading to a load of mixed up gendery shite. And finally he could have a look at the implications of a review of our equality legislation which plans to add gender identity and gender expression to gender thus ensuring that women have all semblance of sex-based protections erased.

Now I'm happy for anyone else who is interested to shine a light on all and any of this but it strikes me that he might have the balls to do it because nobody in media this side of the border seems to.

So if you can get light shone please do because we are sitting in the pitch black and it is terrifying.

And I forgot to mention the incarceration of male bodied violent offenders in Irish women's prisons. He could have a chat about that too.

Sorry for the long post. Hopefully it gives some food for thought to the "no problem in Ireland/self-ID has no effect on you" bullshittery brigade.

@3timeslucky
Definitely deserves a Prime Time special but I suspect RTE is too woke to go down that route.

I'm embarrassed to say that I knew full well that Self-ID legislation was being brought in, alongside the provision for same sex marriage that we had voted for, in 2015 and I genuinely thought it was a good thing. I guess back then my whole idea of transpeople was Hayley Cropper and Sophia on Orange is the New Black and I thought it was a good thing that people could be easily legally recognised by the identity which they needed to live as.

To me a really big part of that was that in my lifetime I went from living in what was essentially a controlling theocracy, where people had voted resoundingly that a foetus was of equal value to a woman and against divorce, where I witnessed 10s of 1000s people all go mad and think that statues of Mary were moving (in 1985!!!), where contraception was illegal, and almost everyone went to mass every Sunday and many went every single day. Priests and nuns were all a cross between authority figures and local celebrities. And even though, in the Republic, our lives were rarely affected by "The Troubles" having a religious war happening on our doorstep still hung over everything.

We shook off so much of that so quickly through the 90s. The country that I lived in as an adult teen in the mid-late 90s was so utterly different to the country I was born in. And us GenXers were very, very proud of that, we had fought against every thing that we had been born into and changed the country for the better. We were modern, unconfined by hypocritical religious moral teaching, we were accepting and people were free to live as they wanted. Alongside that the country was becoming increasingly prosperous and educated.

Going from being a tiny, poor, religious backwater, where most households didn't even have a telephone to a prosperous, modern, highly liberal, very technological, respected nation in the space of a single generation was utterly heady. And it unfortunately disabled a lot of our critical thought when it came to social progression. For so many of us, liberal-good, conservative-bad, is an absolute truth. I know that's true of all the woke people all over the world. But in Ireland so much of the population really did genuinely feel like we'd been woken up from a type of nightmare. So it's exceptionally, exceptionally hard to see that the ideology that set us free has gone full circle.

I'm finding this thread useful anyway. It's good that there are like minded people out there. In answer to the pp who asked what they can do to help, please help us raise awareness of this and just keep talking to us so that we know we're not alone.

I've read various articles from various sources by Irish writers being very critical of the UK and lauding how much better Ireland is.

They made me think, yeah right, all the rights women and gay people in mainland UK have taken for granted for decades, you've finally got round to them. And women in Ireland are still travelling to mainland UK for abortions as the Irish position is still much more restricted than mainland UK.

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/legal-abortion-why-are-women-still-travelling-to-the-uk-every-day-1.4569213?mode=amp

[quote KimikosNightmare]I've read various articles from various sources by Irish writers being very critical of the UK and lauding how much better Ireland is.

They made me think, yeah right, all the rights women and gay people in mainland UK have taken for granted for decades, you've finally got round to them. And women in Ireland are still travelling to mainland UK for abortions as the Irish position is still much more restricted than mainland UK.

www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/legal-abortion-why-are-women-still-travelling-to-the-uk-every-day-1.4569213?mode=amp[/quote]
To be fair, we introduced same sex marriage two years after the UK. It's not exactly so far behind in terms of full equality. And while we didn't decriminalise homosexual sex until 1993, when we did, we immediately set the age of consent to the same age as the existing age of consent for heterosexual sex. Whereas at the time in the UK, the age of consent for homosexual sex was 21 and wasn't made the same as heterosexual sex until 2000.

While we were behind for decades once we started making changes, we made them comparatively rapidly. Then we 'sped ahead' to have an openly homosexual national leader in 2017, the 4th country in the world.

And that is exactly why we are where we are now. We went from being so far behind for so very, very long. Then we caught up rapidly and that momentum just keeps on going. We want to be among the first, if not the very first, to show how super liberal we are. Because we grew up behind.

Will Ireland be among the first nations to register a male giving birth or to legislate for a male abortion?
Self ID 2015
Abortion 2018
What would be appropriate legal language for female in the process of gestation?

The a nice elected persons with a cervix wanted to legislate for "people who menstruate".
The bill has been reworded to "people need" (people need for period products arising from mensturation).

trancepants - I can't locate it but there was an article about 18-24 months ago by an Irish musician (?) who wrote something very similar to you about how youth had led to transitioning from one sacred caste to another.

Does anyone recall the piece? It might have even had something about the unbelievable amounts of money washing around and how perfectly every day people with ordinary jobs were looking to buy race horses and showhouses because of the self-confidence that had been generated by the sense of having laid to rest so many of the past restrictions.

I'm embarrassed to say that I knew full well that Self-ID legislation was being brought in, alongside the provision for same sex marriage that we had voted for, in 2015 and I genuinely thought it was a good thing. I guess back then my whole idea of transpeople was Hayley Cropper and Sophia on Orange is the New Black and I thought it was a good thing that people could be easily legally recognised by the identity which they needed to live as.

To be fair, I think that's an assessment that many people would make in good faith if they didn't really think about this issues. And if they thought it was only a tiny number of people, who we are told are suffering and therefore need accommodations.

The problem is, now that it has been shown that it has gone far beyond that, the government don't want to acknowledge the problems because they want to save face. And shure it's only women and girls who are badly affected, so many people don't care enough .

Posie Parker said something in a video recently, that when the GRA was introduced in the UK back in 2004 (?) there were only two exceptions, one being Churches, and the other being inheriting titles and estates - like Dukedoms etc.

So even back then, they made sure that women couldn't identify 'up' in the world. It couldn't somehow be of benefit to women. They knew well back then it was legal fiction, and didn't care so much as long as it doesn't affect the important stuff....you know, men's stuff.

Is Shoshanna Carroll the same as Keeva / Lillith / Kevin Ferreyra Carroll? It is all so confusing. Perhaps deliberately so....

No. Shoshanna (or Eirennne/Cailleach whatever) is now the former CEO. Brought over in June last year, and is now going back.
Keeva Lilith Carroll has been in TENI for 3 years so as the Community officer. Keeva is the one who has posted constant violent threats and openly boasted on a podcast about "keeping tabs" on terfs.

@3timeslucky that post is an absolute work of art. It's a gem. Very well said.

[quote purplepizzabunny]@3timeslucky that post is an absolute work of art. It's a gem. Very well said.[/quote]
Agree.
Sums it up.

Amen @3timeslucky. Veering off a bit - but it really boils my piss how these clowns adopt names from Celtic mythology. And try to smear GC gay ppl and feminists as dupes of British colonialism ffs. What's that all about? Yes I know - my own username should properly be abhann mór. Must edit it sometime.

Oh it's despicable the way they are riling up anti British feeling just fir their own agenda.
After all this country has gone through, when things seem to be in a bit of a calm between 2 storms phase, they are trying to make it a thing again.

Nothing is off limits to them

@1Week

Oh it's despicable the way they are riling up anti British feeling just fir their own agenda. After all this country has gone through, when things seem to be in a bit of a calm between 2 storms phase, they are trying to make it a thing again.

Nothing is off limits to them

Look right, if these TRAs know anything, it's that women are too empty headed to come up with their own objections. So if women are refusing to be kind and objecting to something the TRAs want, especially if these are the same women who were good and agreed with the TRA men on other things, like marriage equality. Then the only, only thing that could have happened is that some nefarious other has swept in and is now the one influencing these women in stead of them.

And that other is the old bogey man of the Brit. Of course if you dig deeper, you'll find that those British TERFs are also empty headed women who are being influenced by the worst bogey man of all, the American Alt-Right. (Who are maybe being prompted maybe by Russian bots!) However, the one thing these TRAs know for sure, is that women absolutely aren't the ones looking at a situation, thinking about it and coming up with their own objections based on their own ability to think about their own best interests and the protection of vulnerable groups* like children. Because women do not have their own minds.

(*Also lesbians, obviously they aren't vulnerable like children, but they are massively under attack and we should all be objecting to what is happening to them. Not just because we're next, but because what's happening is so fucking fucked up and wrong.)

Exactly, so for example Iseult White is an Irish gender critical feminist whose great grandfather, John McBride , was shot after the Easter Rising.There's no way Iseult is an agent of British colonialism. But we can't expect Éirínne wotsit to know this stuff.

Hi. Sorry to butt in. There is currently a consultation on the draft report on the rights of the child. Section 30(b) is allowing for self id for 16 and 17 year olds.

I have sent in an email with my concerns and am posting a link if anyone else wishes to do so.

www.gov.ie/en/consultation/47e77-consultation-on-irelands-draft-state-report-to-the-un-committee-on-the-rights-of-the-child/%20#

Anyone know who can send views on this? It seems to be in connection to expanding self id (and maybe more likelihood of medicalisation and surgery for this cohort in the future) to minors, with scoping for rolling it out for under 16's. Again, who knows what will be allowed to happen to that age group. First do no harm will be gone for children. Tomorrow is the last day for submissions from the public. Is there some template going to have a gander on issues to be raised?

Consultation on Ireland’s draft State report to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child

On 06 October 2021, the Minister announced the launch of an open written consultation on Ireland’s draft State report under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. This consultation, which runs to 10 November 2021, invites individuals, organisations or groups to provide their views on the draft Report.

www.gov.ie/en/consultation/47e77-consultation-on-irelands-draft-state-report-to-the-un-committee-on-the-rights-of-the-child/%20

I was so slow, NowYouListentoMeFella. Snap.

[quote NowYouListenToMeFella]Hi. Sorry to butt in. There is currently a consultation on the draft report on the rights of the child. Section 30(b) is allowing for self id for 16 and 17 year olds.

I have sent in an email with my concerns and am posting a link if anyone else wishes to do so.

www.gov.ie/en/consultation/47e77-consultation-on-irelands-draft-state-report-to-the-un-committee-on-the-rights-of-the-child/%20#[/quote]
Thanks, I will send an email about this. I already emailed my local TDs but heard nothing back .