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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

LGBA and terfs are just old, white and negative...

77 replies

Shedbuilder · 05/11/2021 20:03

So says a lesbian friend of 18 years: a woman who's attended the excellent parties we've held, spent many hours at our table, leaned on us for support when she was having a hard time, holidayed with us and generally had quite a lot of fun in our presence.

Apparently all we and the LGBA ever talk about are dull negative terfy things. We're full of hate and we're just a bunch of embittered old white women. She's joined a couple of 'fun' lesbian groups which promote weekends and activities and include an increasing number of transwomen as word goes round about how trans-friendly they are.

'You just don't understand,' she says. 'They've really suffered, these transwomen. They've been trapped in the wrong body for years. They have a lot of trauma and mental health issues. We need to be kind and support them, not constantly negative.' The transwomen she's pictured with on these weekends are in their 40s and 50s: late transitioners.

Apparently the LGB Alliance is just for old white women who talk about hate in interviews with the press. She says that they give lesbians a bad name and that everyone assumes that all lesbians are spouting vitriol and hatred — and she's not going to do that, she's going to be kind and see the good and positive in transpeople.

So that's another one off my Christmas card list.

OP posts:
RepentMotherfucker · 05/11/2021 20:09

I'm sure her new friends will do all those things on your first paragraph for her.

And also not constantly bang on and on about the same old topics.

Whenever I look at TAs twitter they seem to have a wide and diverse range of interests and not just spend their whole lives on navel gazing narcissism.

RepentMotherfucker · 05/11/2021 20:11

I mean this, They've been trapped in the wrong body for years. They have a lot of trauma and mental health issues. We need to be kind and support them, not constantly negative. sounds like a fun weekend in itself. Where's it happening? Ibiza?

DaisyNGO · 05/11/2021 20:14

"We're full of hate and we're just a bunch of embittered old white women"

I'm interested that she thinks it's just white women. These people literally just spout nonsense from some weird playbook. Does she think she'll get vastly different responses from wonen like me, just because I'm not white?

Or are we in Joe Biden "you ain't black" territory?!

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 05/11/2021 20:17

Well she's wrong because LGB Alliance is for gay men and bi-sexuals too. Have you asked her about the cotton ceiling?

Shedbuilder · 05/11/2021 20:20

I suppose she might have seen Bev and Kate talking and assumed that everyone involved is female and white. I said 'But what about Allison Bailer, what about Lucy Masoud?' But she didn't know who they were.

She's the fun kind of middle-aged, white lesbian.

OP posts:
Bellendejour · 05/11/2021 20:20

Has she gone a bit ‘Here come the girls’ Boots advert pass me the glitter Janice? Sounds like a mid life crisis.

Who hasn’t fucking suffered by that stage in life? Has she thought about the Transwidows they’ve left behind? Bet they aren’t having a great time.

I’m sorry your friend is an imbecile.

aweegc · 05/11/2021 20:21

This sort of thesis about the most oppressed group of all time, ever, is quite incredible in particular when told in this situation.

These trans women are out and living their best lesbian lives now. They've got what they say wasn't available to them pre transition (or self-ID). They can't be suffering all their lives, transition and still be suffering - or why do it? The groups (aka lesbian and women's groups) that they couldn't attend before, they now can. They're in a safe and accepting community apparently. They are free to be themselves precisely because of women like your former friend. That's the whole narrative. But so determined are the "allies" to perpetuate the idea of oppression that even when trans women accepted by these very allies, when they're given a safe space to live out their fantasies, they're STILL the most oppressed.

The cognitive dissonance is quite something.

It would be quite incredible if every woman who has suffered physical and/or psychological violence at the hands of a man could receive the support, understanding and empathy applied to men who magic (apparently) into women.

Good to save on the price of a stamp and card though! Sorry you've gone through this with her.

Chersfrozenface · 05/11/2021 20:34

Hurtful for you, OP. Well, leave her to her new friends, and may she have great joy of them.

If it ever goes sour, and you can find it in you to sympathise with her, you're a better person than me. I'm in the "don't come crying to me" camp.

HollowTalk · 05/11/2021 20:37

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Artichokeleaves · 05/11/2021 20:40

Ageist, racist, and somewhat homophobic. She sounds great fun Confused

Shedbuilder · 05/11/2021 20:46

I’m sorry your friend is an imbecile.

It turns out that quite a few of my friends are imbeciles! My partner and I are upfront about our feminism and we assumed that all the people who wanted to be in our friendship circles were also feminists. We got it badly wrong.

Yes, I think it probably is a mid-life crisis thing. She's been through a difficult time, she just wants to drink wine and go clubbing.

Meanwhile, shut up, vipers, you're no fun!

OP posts:
fournonblondes · 05/11/2021 20:53

Exactly why do you want an ageist and racist friend. 🤢

LobsterNapkin · 05/11/2021 21:04

You friend has been foolish, but I increasingly think most people are foolish about some things.

I suspect this may be a problem that takes care of itself when her new friends become less fun.

Abhannmor · 05/11/2021 21:12

Yeah Keira Bell is so old and white...

jay55 · 05/11/2021 21:15

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OperationDessertStorm · 05/11/2021 21:16

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Hoppinggreen · 05/11/2021 21:19

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Hoppinggreen · 05/11/2021 21:19

Apologies for mistaken quote

tilder · 05/11/2021 21:20

They've been trapped in the wrong body for years

I didn't think this view is the official view anymore? Hasn't this been dropped?

They have a lot of trauma and mental health issues

Am sure they have had a rough time. Not sure being trans is officially seen as a mental health issue though (I really struggle with this one, because it's not a physical health issue but medical intervention is expected, so not sure what else is left).

There is a difference between TRA and accepting trans people. Although as I don't agree TWAW or TMAM (nor do I agree with medical intervention for children as part of this) I realise my views won't be deemed accepting by some. I don't see it as an all or nothing situation.

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 05/11/2021 21:24

Raquel Rosario Sanchez

Allison Bailey

Keira Bell

Nimco Ali

What was that thing about old and white again...?

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 05/11/2021 21:25

Dave chappelle, also old and white

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff · 05/11/2021 21:27

I mean ffs.... sorry, OP. I have a L friend exactly like this. I am straight and she patronisingly carefully explained how it was only older lesbians who thought like this because they were still stuck in pre sec 28 mindset and felt they needed to fight for everything. What can you say to that....

Scraggythang · 05/11/2021 21:31

It’s so frustrating speaking to people who haven’t really seen it yet. I live on hope that when it becomes so obvious that they can’t comply any longer things will get better… but going by my social group, things would have to get so bad there’d be no going back in our lifetime.

Shedbuilder · 05/11/2021 21:39

She's seems to have it in for Bev in particular, which is bizarre. I suspect she's seen one brief excerpt of Bev saying she's angry about something and that's the whole LGBA written off as angry old white women.

It's all getting a bit much, this realisation that so many of our 'friends' are stupid, racist and above all ageist.

OP posts:
bbgxd · 05/11/2021 21:41

Apparently all we and the LGBA ever talk about are dull negative terfy things. We're full of hate and we're just a bunch of embittered old white women.

The old white men/women line is always used to shut people up and I hate it. Most of the world don't believe in gender ideology, and most of em aren't white.

They'd never go up to a Muslim person and call them a terf or transphobe. It's always white/Christian used as shutdowns.

And I am neither white nor Christian, but it's just something I noticed. My white boyfriend is always saying things like this and I have to remind him that my non-white family also reject gender stuff and are generally more traditional/conservative.