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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

LGBA and terfs are just old, white and negative...

77 replies

Shedbuilder · 05/11/2021 20:03

So says a lesbian friend of 18 years: a woman who's attended the excellent parties we've held, spent many hours at our table, leaned on us for support when she was having a hard time, holidayed with us and generally had quite a lot of fun in our presence.

Apparently all we and the LGBA ever talk about are dull negative terfy things. We're full of hate and we're just a bunch of embittered old white women. She's joined a couple of 'fun' lesbian groups which promote weekends and activities and include an increasing number of transwomen as word goes round about how trans-friendly they are.

'You just don't understand,' she says. 'They've really suffered, these transwomen. They've been trapped in the wrong body for years. They have a lot of trauma and mental health issues. We need to be kind and support them, not constantly negative.' The transwomen she's pictured with on these weekends are in their 40s and 50s: late transitioners.

Apparently the LGB Alliance is just for old white women who talk about hate in interviews with the press. She says that they give lesbians a bad name and that everyone assumes that all lesbians are spouting vitriol and hatred — and she's not going to do that, she's going to be kind and see the good and positive in transpeople.

So that's another one off my Christmas card list.

OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 05/11/2021 22:04

Ask her what she thinks the women are bitter about?

I'd be really interested to hear the answer tbh.

Angelwings77 · 05/11/2021 22:34

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NiceGerbil · 05/11/2021 22:44

You told a bunch of lesbians that they're dick suckers?

Really?!

TERF truths? What's that supposed to mean?

Is saying horrible things to lesbians about penises not exactly what is being shouted waay too much of already?

Are you quite young? I ask because all this dick stuff seems to be newish and come from USA

NiceGerbil · 05/11/2021 22:45

Oh ah read whole post. Had missed toilets bit.

Fucks sake. I should have guessed with the bit I did!

ElectricCarbonara · 05/11/2021 23:04

I'm on holiday with my much younger gay male friends, one is a black Hindi from Mauritius and we've just celebrated Diwali and the other is a brown Muslim from India.

Neither of these two men are going to pretend that trans men are men, they just laugh incredulously at the idea.

I guess they are all old white women.

They say hi!.

Angelwings77 · 05/11/2021 23:13

Lol I think I've posted about 5 times on Mumsnet despite being a lurker for years, my first time I've had a post deleted! For saying as a lesbian I'm sick and tired of other lesbians 'dick pandering'! Oh well it's not going to stop me telling them they're dick pandering, on here, on Facebook groups or to their face!

NiceGerbil · 05/11/2021 23:15

You said worse than that. Not surprised it was deleted.

If you are saying those things irl I think that's really awful tbh.

WillyWollyWandy · 05/11/2021 23:17

OP stamps are quite expensive these days. They’ve gone up around 50% in the last few years.
So you’ve lucked out: one less to buy. Woop.

MonsignorMirth · 05/11/2021 23:17

Trapped in the wrong body?
She thinks male bodies are 'wrong' for women?
I assume she's transphobic too then?

Angelwings77 · 05/11/2021 23:36

@NiceGerbil you can think whatever you want to be honest! As a same sex attracted lesbian I've stopped being nice and polite trying to defend my sexual orientation. From now on its going to be fucking brutal truths to anyone and everyone trying to claim men can be lesbians! If you don't like that I'm sorry, I'm done, strangers, friends, family will be told to fuck off

PickAChew · 05/11/2021 23:41

The transwomen she's pictured with on these weekends are in their 40s and 50s: late transitioners.

So they're old like me, then. Absolute midlife crisis age, in fact. In the past, middle aged men bought ridiculous cars. Now they wear impractical women's clothes, it seem.

NiceGerbil · 06/11/2021 00:17

I don't think telling lesbians you disagree with that they're... What you said. Is in any way helpful.

The fact it's used so often to lesbians by so many trans supporters doesn't give you pause?

Yes do what you like. I just can't understand why using the same sexually threatening penis centred insults that males everywhere love so much is... Well I don't get it.

NiceGerbil · 06/11/2021 00:23

It's just such a male thing.

There is nothing inherently wrong with fellating someone.

Why do men use it as an insult?

Because they see it as subordinate. Men use it to each other- that's about homophobia, misogyny. There's also the frequency it's used referencing oral rape.

You can obv do and say what you want.

The idea it's what did you say. A standard t*RF rallying call or whatever. That's a claim you can make but given that group are characterised as middle aged women it's not something likely to be thrown around is it.

NiceGerbil · 06/11/2021 00:24

Point out that the trapped in the wrong body thing really pisses off some with physical disabilities.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/11/2021 00:47

As a same sex attracted lesbian I've stopped being nice and polite trying to defend my sexual orientation. From now on its going to be fucking brutal truths to anyone and everyone trying to claim men can be lesbians! If you don't like that I'm sorry, I'm done, strangers, friends, family will be told to fuck off

You have my full support. No equivocation.

NiceGerbil · 06/11/2021 01:16

Did you read what she wrote?

If yes then again. That's your thing I don't agree.

NiceGerbil · 06/11/2021 01:16

I mean the deleted one.

LobsterNapkin · 06/11/2021 01:36

@Shedbuilder

She's seems to have it in for Bev in particular, which is bizarre. I suspect she's seen one brief excerpt of Bev saying she's angry about something and that's the whole LGBA written off as angry old white women.

It's all getting a bit much, this realisation that so many of our 'friends' are stupid, racist and above all ageist.

It drives me crazy too, but a lot of them, they really don't realize. I know a number of people like this. They are desperate to be anti-racist, to be understanding to the poor gender-confused people who have been hiding for so long, and the rest. They have no clue that their assumptions about non-white people are often quite stereotyped and a little patronizing, or that they don't get gender theory and some of their ideas are actually considered transphobic.

A lot of them remind me of kids in school who were desperate to do the right things the teacher wanted, and horrified at the thought of getting it wrong.

Madwife123 · 06/11/2021 01:55

If these transwomen are so oppressed then why would they be willing to do the same thing to another group of women by demanding lesbians “get used” to sex with a penis. That looks a lot more like male privilege then oppression to me.

toofer · 06/11/2021 03:23

Sounds like there's a lot of projection and internalised misogyny, homophobia, ageism and indeed racism going on with your friend here, OP.

She sounds only one step away from calling lesbians 'Karens' and 'witches' etc.

That's sad. But I can understand why you would choose to walk away - arguing with that is soul-destroying and I can see why you wouldn't want that negativity and racism (ironically from one who complains other women are negative!) around you on a regular basis. You've tried to talk to her but she's not interested in listening, so protecting yourself and walking away seems rational.

xxyzz · 06/11/2021 03:29

Fundamentally, this kind of attitude is inexcusably blinkered. How can anyone who's read the news over the last year or two possibly label say Keira Bell as old and white?

It's just racist to whitewash Keira's existence and importance. And it's ageist to assume that where older women speak, say Alison Bailey, that their concerns and voices are irrelevant because they're over 40.

It just makes my blood boil, sorry.

TheGirlCat · 06/11/2021 04:53

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NecessaryScene · 06/11/2021 06:47

They are desperate to be anti-racist, to be understanding to the poor gender-confused people who have been hiding for so long, and the rest. They have no clue that their assumptions about non-white people are often quite stereotyped and a little patronizing, or that they don't get gender theory and some of their ideas are actually considered transphobic.

I always thought this was kind of more of a US thing, but I guess it happens elsewhere.

Was watching John McWhorter yesterday, and he's quite fed up with this - his new book is "Woke Racism".

JM: Woke racism is that there's a certain kind of Woke person who feels that it's not only about being leftistly informed, but that there's this basic proposition that we must be primarily focused on overturning power differentials, and especially what they call white supremacy. That that must be the focus of intellectual, artistic and moral endeavour, and if you're not doing that then you are evil and you should be chased out of the public square; you should lose your job; you should be shamed.

That's a kind of Woke person. With that kind of person they're so committed to this basic display that they know what racism is, that it's become the heartbeat of a religion. Very much a religion. That has become so important that even when they do things and stick up for things that hurt black people, they don't pay attention and they don't care, because what they really care about is showing that they know racism exists, because that shows that they're good people.

So it ends up being unintentional, but it is a Woke racism, and this book has been written to blow the whistle on it.

Interviewer: It seems like there's an inherent connection with virtue signalling there, if the reason that people are prepared to take a narrative over the top of its actual impacts, the reason for that is that they're concerned with how they're signalling to the world at large.

JM: I would even put it as the virtue signalling has become a religion instead of just something that people do idly, and it's really scary to see because people will fiercely virtue signal and claim that what they're doing is creating social justice. They're claiming that it's for other people, but they're much less concerned with the other people than they really would be if we hadn't gone from politics to a religion.

(You see similar dynamics for TRAs - and that's possibly the dominant form of that behaviour in the UK, rather than using race)

Doubletoilandtrouble · 06/11/2021 06:52

OP I am so sorry that you have lost a friend. The fact that this friend has leaned on you for years and now suddenly not only rejects your values but also comes across as ageist and racist must be very hurtful.

I think she sounds like she is having a midlife crises. She seems to be trying to say what quite young people are saying and there seems to be quite a bit of partying going on. Focusing on others’ (not close friends) mental health issues and drinking a lot is a way to flee your own reality.

I didn’t see the deleted post but I understand that lesbians are angry if their sexuality constantly is being questioned. It must feel like a never ending boundary violation.

I hope you have other nice friends OP. This one seems to be very trying at the moment.

MoltenLasagne · 06/11/2021 07:56

What gets me, even if LGB Alliance were just older, white, women - so sodding what? What is it about being over 40, or white, or female means that women shouldn't have the right to stand up for themselves, and be angry about men trying to take their rights and loudly say "No!"?