Men and women will keep their separate toilets under Government plans

[Fluffymule]

Has this been shared today? Had a quick scroll through earlier posts but couldn't see it.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10148817/Men-women-separate-toilets-plans-away-gender-neutral-loos.html

"in a blow to transgender lobbyists, The Mail on Sunday has learnt that public toilets and office spaces would be required to keep separate loos as standard but can also provide another 'safe space' for those who want it."

Surely the third space option was always the obvious answer?

@bordersmidgebites

No I don't think that is quite correct

Firstly the equality act only covers those with gender recognition certificate. those saying they want one whilst knowing full well they won't get one without self id ( because they don't meet current criteria ) will not be covered by the "in process " aspect

Secondly the equality act allows for pure sex when appropriate and there is a growing body of men who are increasingly prepared to haul out any one with a dick from the ladies

Damn right!

If I found a person with a penis in the women's toilets when my daughter is in there I would definitely remove them.

I've been reading a lot about this trans rights stuff on here lately and my opinion is:

A woman is born female

A man is born male.

Anyone who transitions (which I have zero problem with!) is trans.

If someone has fully transitioned from male to female then yes they should be able to use the ladies loo's.

But not a male who identifies as a woman. He's still a male with the bits and should be nowhere near that toilet.

Sorry if I've offended anyone.

@GreyhoundG1rl

in a blow to transgender lobbyists, The Mail on Sunday has learnt that public toilets and office spaces would be required to keep separate loos as standard but can also provide another 'safe space' for those who want it." So, safe spaces for all who need them. Where is the "blow", exactly? Ffs!

Lobbyists aren't interested in sensible compromises like third spaces.

There are a few misconceptions here about single sex spaces on both sides. The Equality Act provides for the potential existence of single sex spaces, it doesn't actually mandate them. But on the other hand there is no positive right "enshrined in the Equality Act" for males with the PC of gender reassignment to use female single sex spaces. The service provider or employer is expected to decide on access and manage their "single sex" spaces, in a way that doesn't harass or discriminate against any people with protected characteristics.

If someone has fully transitioned from male to female then yes they should be able to use the ladies loo's.

You cannot change sex so cannot fully transition from male to female. Whatever hormones a male person takes, whatever surgeries they have, however they present - they are still male and should not be in a single sex toilet which does not align with their sex.

You can't fully transition from male to female though firsttime. Even males who undergo gender reassignment surgery are still males presenting as women. And you can get a GRC without surgery. However, I personally feel there's less of an issue with someone who has surgically transitioned. Not everyone feels that way though and I will never think of them as female because biologically they just aren't.

@BlueberryCheezecake

Doesn't change the Equality Act - trans people are still legally entitled to use the toilet corresponding to their reassigned gender.

Hi there @BlueberryCheezecake 🖐🏻 Back to talk nonsense again are you?

@firsttimedad79 I completely agree.

Toilet facilities are segregated based on sex, not on feelings. Otherwise I would expect a warm loo seat as I feel the cold easily.

If someone has fully transitioned from male to female then yes they should be able to use the ladies loo's.

No. They should not. Every cell in their body is male, no matter how they present.

Doesn't change the Equality Act - trans people are still legally entitled to use the toilet corresponding to their reassigned gender.

How can this possibly be the case when toilets, and the Equality Act, are based on sex, not gender?

There are no toilets for specific gender identities. How could there be when according to stonewall there are 57 varieties or whatever it is of gender. We'd have to have 57 toilets in all public places!!

The Equality Act allows for sex-based segregation not facilities as Sex is a protected characteristic, not gender identity!

Doesn't change the Equality Act - trans people are still legally entitled to use the toilet corresponding to their reassigned gender.

No.

Transpeople are legally entitled to use the toilet corresponding to their sex and cannot be presented from doing so because their gender presentation has changed.

That is the law.

*prevented

Good. Its about time the Torys started being pro - active. I have been so angry at Labour for such a long time over this. Now I need to see the Tories doing something if they want to have my vote going forward and they will get it if they stop men being placed in women prisons.

The Tories pro- actively pushed self ID in the first place. They are undoing a mess to which they made massive contributions. Including excluding women's group from the Parliamentary discussions on self ID proposals, and appointing a former Stonewall chair to head up the EHRC, push this agenda, and put GC women on the wrong side of the human rights discussion, long enough to do a lot of damage. Labour (and the Lib Dems) can get to fuck, but the Tories need to atone big time for the incredible damage done to the rights of women under their watch.

They can do this by being very clear indeed on the obligation of employers and providers of public used spaces to provide facilities strictly segregated on the basis of biological sex (or sex assigned at birth if they need to use that bullshit phrase to get through to the idiots), with no ifs, buts, maybes and general film flam about "undergoing gender reassignment" " possessing a GRC" or any of the rest of it. No more muddying of the waters with unclear legislation, no more entertainment of appeals to kindness at the expense of women, no more confusing bollocks terminology that can be twisted in a 180.