Anti-pronouns letter to companies

[Sunkisses]

This is an email a friend wrote to a law firm about how seeing pronouns in their staff emails makes her feel, as a woman. Apparently it may have worked as the male lawyer stopped putting pronouns in his signature. She wants other women to adapt it. She set up a gmail account in another name as she didn't want her email to result in negative treatment from the staff, but wanted the firm to know how statements of allegiance to gender ideology makes her feel.

Dear XX

I am a client of yours but I am sending this from an anonymous email account as I do not feel safe sending this from my real account, and fear it will have repurcussions on my treatment by your staff.

I wanted you to know that two of your staff who I deal with have she/her and he/him in their email signatures. I don't know if this is a standard practice and encouraged by XX, or if this is peculiar to these two staff.

I see the statement of pronouns in email signatures as a political statement on an extremely controversial and divisive issue. It makes me feel incredibly uncomfortable, alienated, and quite fearful that I may not receive fair treatment if I disagreed with your staff on this issue. I wanted XX to know how I feel about this, and how many people are likely to feel.

The two staff are clearly female and male, and there is absolutely no reason for them to add these pronouns to their email signature apart from to make a clear political statement on their position on a very divisive issue. I do not believe your staff should be inserting their political positions into their communications with clients, especially on uniquely divisive issues. You would not expect to see staff stating their position on Brexit in their email signatures, with "Leave" or "Remain" added under their contact details. Or people stating "Christ is Lord" or "Allahu Akbar". Or "Vaccinate now" or "Lift lockdown" added.

I profoundly disagree with gender identity ideology. I see it as regressive, sexist and homophobic. I do not regard it as progressive in the slightest. I regard much of gender identity activism as extremely authoritarian and a threat to freedom of thought, belief, and expression, and a threat to the rights of women and girls. I profoundly disagree with the attempts to redefine what a woman is, and what same-sex attraction is. From conversations I have, most people agree with me but many are too fearful of saying so as this issue is so controversial and trans activists are incredibly aggressive and target people in their workplaces.

When I see your staff acting as activists with political statements in their email signatures it does not make me feel comfortable at all, and makes me feel like they would not treat me fairly if they knew that I profoundly disagreed with their political views on the importance of women's rights. It makes me feel they oppose the rights of women and girls, and it makes me feel alienated and completely excluded.

I ask that XX reconsider whether it is appropriate for staff to have political statements such as pronouns in their email signatures, and whether staff should be using their workplace as a forum for their activism.

Yours, XX

I have seen them more and more at work.
They have been from social workers, medial staff, therapists etc.
I feel very strongly that professionals who offer a much needed service to individuals and families should NOT be using these signatures.
Their clients are often vulnerable and dependant on their services. They may have waited many months for them or only have them because they are already disempowered by the system.
To then 'demand' your service users think of you/address you in a certain way is a misuse of the power you hold over them (or they think you hold over them)
What will happen if they get it 'wrong'? Will they be sanctioned if they call you by the wrong pronoun? Will their service be removed or will you put a black mark by their name?

We have a responsibility to those we work with and for. We should not be be putting unnecessary demands on people living under considerable stress.

@BubbleBathBitch

I have my pronouns on my email signature (she/her) because we have a non-binary employee so their pronouns are they/them. I added my pronouns to my signature to show inclusivity to my colleague, so that they weren't the only person in the office to have them on their email signature. Where do we stand on this? I don't want to offend/upset anyone (but that includes my colleague!?) xxxx

The trouble is that this is a binary issue - you either have pronouns on your email or you don’t.

If I see an email with pronouns I assume that this is a person who believes that men can become women by saying they are one and that they subscribe to a binary where there is only one way to be female or male

Therefore there a number of issues I will not discuss with them and will keep my head down

@TheFirstMrsDV

I have seen them more and more at work. They have been from social workers, medial staff, therapists etc. I feel very strongly that professionals who offer a much needed service to individuals and families should NOT be using these signatures. Their clients are often vulnerable and dependant on their services. They may have waited many months for them or only have them because they are already disempowered by the system. To then 'demand' your service users think of you/address you in a certain way is a misuse of the power you hold over them (or they think you hold over them) What will happen if they get it 'wrong'? Will they be sanctioned if they call you by the wrong pronoun? Will their service be removed or will you put a black mark by their name?

We have a responsibility to those we work with and for. We should not be be putting unnecessary demands on people living under considerable stress.

Yes. My son is 19 and has SEN. He still mixes pronouns up. She and he, him and her confuse him enough. Adding other pronouns into the mix would just confuse things more. He often calls his sister he or brothers she. Sometimes he corrects himself, other times he doesn't notice.

He now goes to a mainstream college that does courses for people with SEN, life skills etc. an email from one of the staff had pronouns on.

What happens if he gets it wrong? He absolutely hates getting into trouble. If he got told off it would cause a meltdown.

Maybe I need to email to ask?

I’ve been watching this issue unfold at my DH’s workplace for a while. First, a couple of staff using them in their email signature. Then he had a meeting where everyone introduced themselves including pronouns. Now it’s seems to be taking centre stage part of ‘queering’ his organisation. He doesn’t feel that he can raise any concerns. Makes me wonder who feels safe or unsafe.

Great idea! I’ll have a look at safe schools, thank you. I would get in touch with the governing body but I’m not sure if academy trusts are in that Stonewall brainwashing scheme or not :/

@takingmytimeonmyride
My son has SN. He now goes to a ms college. He has already been reported for transphobia. His crime? A young woman disclosed sexual assault in a discussion about trauma and immediately afterward a young person who id's as trans butted in and described their terrible trauma at being mis gendered.
My boy was aghast at the rudeness and insensitivity of them comparing their experience with the young woman's and the way they talked over her.
So he was reported for being a bigot.
Luckily the staff didn't take it further.
Lucky for all involved because if they had I would have given them an introduction to reality.

[quote TheFirstMrsDV]@takingmytimeonmyride
My son has SN. He now goes to a ms college. He has already been reported for transphobia. His crime? A young woman disclosed sexual assault in a discussion about trauma and immediately afterward a young person who id's as trans butted in and described their terrible trauma at being mis gendered.
My boy was aghast at the rudeness and insensitivity of them comparing their experience with the young woman's and the way they talked over her.
So he was reported for being a bigot.
Luckily the staff didn't take it further.
Lucky for all involved because if they had I would have given them an introduction to reality.[/quote]
And nobody gave the traumatised trans person an introduction to reality, I presume?
They're like fucking Teflon 🤦‍♀️

Absolutely fantastic. Very articulate and well written. I am so sick of pregnant person, cervix havers or, as in the Lancet, bodies with vaginas. Three days previously the Lancet posted about men getting their prostrates checked so only women are being desexed. I may use part of this in future.

Crikey, I hadn’t realised how disablist compelled speech is. Protected characteristic or should I say another protected characteristic vs feelz.

I can’t begin to imagine how that young woman felt disclosing. Well done your ds @TheFirstMrsDV.

*The trouble is that this is a binary issue - you either have pronouns on your email or you don’t.

If I see an email with pronouns I assume that this is a person who believes that men can become women by saying they are one and that they subscribe to a binary where there is only one way to be female or male

Therefore there a number of issues I will not discuss with them and will keep my head down.*

I too see it exactly like this.
However, I do not think this is always the case. A friend of mine has included his pronouns in his signature because he was asked to do so several times (by an academic institution) and was (is) not aware of the divisive issues around it.

A friend of mine has included his pronouns in his signature because he was asked to do so several times (by an academic institution) and was (is) not aware of the divisive issues around it

I agree that it is framed as a simple “be kind” thing by all sorts of people and institutions, but people need to start paying attention to what they’re really supporting. Hence the usefulness of the letter at the start of this thread and the points it raises.

@WTFCanIDoAboutThis *“I'm seriously not trying to be goady...I'm trying to understand what the actual offense is. How are pronouns 'explicitly homophobic' if it's a way of an individual demonstrating their own pronouns. How does one person's right to express themselves affect another person?”

Gender ideology as a philosophy or set of beliefs is, now, explicitly homophobic. Have you seen what Stonewall / Nancy Kelly have been saying recently? People stating “their pronouns” is effectively a declaration that they believe all the implications of gender ideology. That sex doesn’t matter / doesn’t exist and that this “inner gender” is all that matters. That lesbians are “same-gender attracted” and if someone with a penis wants to have sex with them, they’re transphobic if they say they’re not interested because as lesbians, they’re not interested in biologically male partners.

This all sounds crazy. I know. That’s because it is crazy. Pronouns are a shorthand form to avoid using the full noun over and over again. If you’re talking about “a table” in English, you can then talk about moving “it”, or setting it for dinner or whatever. For people, “he” and “she” are used according to the sex of the person being referred to. Those pronouns are not owned by the person being referred to.

If, say, a man tells people he wants to be referred to as “she”, most of us would shrug our shoulders and go along with it, at least where the person was present in the room (though obviously would use second person “you” if addressing the person directly!) But making that sort of edge-case the absolute standard for how language and society works is weird authoritarianism. Language evolves. It isn’t just changed by diktats from some self-appointed authorities (in this case, essentially, US tech and social media companies).

But the main point is that putting pronouns in an email signature is a political statement that you agree with all the implications of gender ideology.

In my opinion you've nailed it. 🙂

Coming from an opposite angle - I recently had some legal problems. I felt very reassured when I noted that none of the professionals I was dealing with had pronouns on their email signatures. It made me feel I had a serious professional company taking on my problems. That they would be concentrating on their work, on me and the problem in hand. That I wasn't dealing with someone who was prioritising their politics over my problems and who might have a hissy fit if I accidentally misgendered them. I knew I had grown ups on my side.
I wasn't disappointed as they were brilliant.
That's all I wanted. MY problem to be dealt with swiftly and effectively and it was.

Huge thank you for sharing this letter - wording saved for when needed.

I'm mentally prepared for how to handle a request that I add my pronouns, but hadn't considered challenging others on their decision (if it really was their decision...) to sign off emails etc. with theirs.

Food for thought.

It made me feel I had a serious professional company taking on my problems. That they would be concentrating on their work, on me and the problem in hand. That I wasn't dealing with someone who was prioritising their politics over my problems and who might have a hissy fit if I accidentally misgendered them. I knew I had grown ups on my side.
Exactly this.

To then 'demand' your service users think of you/address you in a certain way is a misuse of the power you hold over them (or they think you hold over them) What will happen if they get it 'wrong'? Will they be sanctioned if they call you by the wrong pronoun? Will their service be removed or will you put a black mark by their name?

This happened to someone recently, in a desperate place, and she turned to us for help:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4357047-Can-someone-please-explain-this-to-me

Please don't flame me. I'm in a really bad place, mentally and physically, a huge amount to deal with and zero medical support.

I was directed to email someone at the council for urgent help which I did, and it went though (sometimes they don't). I began my email with "Dear Ms" as it was a woman and always address emails as such, like letters, and on the council website it says she's Ms firstname second name.

Anyway, I've had a long email back about discrimination, how i need to educate myself about pronouns online and how to address people properly in writing. They drew my attention to their signature which says gender pronoun her/she and directed me to council policy about gender discrimination.

Zero advice on my urgent situation

I dont understand. Do I now just put "hi" in any professional emails so I don't get in trouble? Why aren't they answering my urgent question?? Was I rude? How am I supposed to know how to address people properly and why am I being accused of discrimination?!

Another interesting take on the pronoun letter here:

leelaventura05.wixsite.com/website/post/when-you-put-preferred-pronouns-in-your-email-signature

thank you for this letter. I am getting more and more buiness emails with pronouns in them and I didn't feel like I could do anyting.

But now I have specificaly set up an email account (not linked to my work at all as that would be very dangerous for me) to email companies who staff are doing this with a slightly modified version of the letter in the OP.

thank you for sharing this idea and support.

@NecessaryScene that is disgusting and exactly what I fear will happen.

Agree with the letter 100%

Great email thank you for sharing

Pupils are now giving their pronouns in my workplace - and are part of an LGBTQ+ inclusion team that are asking for staff to give their pronouns on ID badges. I have a 13 year old boy demanding that we refer to him as she/her and two others as they/them.

Won't be doing it.

Sorry - bit of a rant there.

I'm surprised how many people on here are worried by something that causes them no harm whatsoever.

Why would you be worried about writing to someone who expresses their preferred pronouns ? In what way does this cause you any issues ?

So a man writes two otherwise identical letters ... one in which he puts his pronouns and one he doesn't.

Are you that weak and flimsy that you fall apart at the letter with the pronouns and cannot function ... because that's what this post says about those that use the template.

Lets hope your little darling offsprings don't grow up hating their parents ... because you have zero control over their feelings ... you selfish fools.

The main point is that putting pronouns in an email signature is a political statement of agreement with all the implications of gender ideology. Many of us do not agree and see gender ideology as ludicrous at best. Does that mean we 'fall apart' at the mention of pronouns? No, and I don't know how you made that inference.