Labour women’s declaration - In support of the BBC article. Lesbians should not be pressured into sex with transwomen.

[BatmansBat]

labourwomensdeclaration.org.uk/news/open-letter-in-support-of-bbc-news-website-publishing-the-article-were-being-pressured-into-sex-by-some-trans-women-2/

Excellent

They are going to get clobbered.

For stating the bleeding obvious.

Very well expressed. I agree with all of it.

I am very behind the curve on this and have only recently become aware of the issues with self-identification. Theoretically and coming from a generally liberal perspective, I feel I should have no issue with self-ID and I would hope that I am supportive of trans people who I encounter. In addition, many cultures recognise the concept of a third gender and this makes sense to me. However, I feel very uncomfortable with the idea of any prisoner who self ID as women being allowed to serve time in women’s prisons alongside vulnerable prisoners, the erasing of lesbianism and the silencing of anyone with gender critical views. Apologies for expressing this so clumsily, but where does someone like me start to educate themselves on the issues?

Just read. Listen. The arguments from both angles are in mainstream media a fair bit.

See what you think.

I mean to me it's obvious that the gender > sex way is. Illogical (words and arguments changing every 5 mins and often contradictory), obviously a big risk for women and girls. And that leaving the female half of the world population with no words to define as one group with distinct needs issues oppression etc etc is an out and out attack on all women and girls full stop.

There's a thread called break it down. On here. Sure someone will link soon!

Here you go

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

What a fantastic letter.

How can they be Labour, when the Labour line is so far off this? Ben Bradshaw's support for the bullying of Dr Stock and his attack on the BBC for publishing this article for eg? Keir Starmer's burbling re "most marginalised"...

Wow.

Now will the PLP try to bury this or will we begin to see some sense from that direction? (I'm not holding my breath)

That’s the best thing I’ve read in ages, I’d love to go back to the Labour part too.

It's brilliant, but it's a million miles from what we've heard from labour recently. Perhaps they've realised the conservatives are taking half their voters away on this?

Bloody hell, unexpected but definitely not unwelcome, this is really starting to feel like a sea change now

@NiceGerbil

They are going to get clobbered.

For stating the bleeding obvious.

Personally I think they need to. First hand experience might wake the buggers up a bit.

@Scoutingformygirls

What a fantastic letter.

How can they be Labour, when the Labour line is so far off this? Ben Bradshaw's support for the bullying of Dr Stock and his attack on the BBC for publishing this article for eg? Keir Starmer's burbling re "most marginalised"...

This isn't the Labour party, it's the Labour Women's Declaration, a group of labour activists, who made their original declaration in the form of a petition in 2019.

labourwomensdeclaration.org.uk/about-2/

Thanks MN for keeping me up to date on these changes or I would be continuing with the depressing opinion that Stonewall rules everything.
I wonder how much influence Stephen Nolan's great podcasts have made on attitudes.
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09yjmph/episodes/player

Thanks @OldCrone. I guess my confusion is how anyone aligns themselves with Labour while thinking like this, given how Labours stance on this is so aggressively the opposite?

Google "terf is a slur documenting" to see the death and rape threats made against lesbians. For ME, I saw this was a men's rights group when I first heard "front hole" used.

Thanks for sharing this OP. It's an excellent letter which the leadership of the Labour Party would do well to read and inwardly digest.