BBC responds to backlash to article about lesbians being pressured into sex by some trans women

[FindTheTruth]

BBC spokesperson said: “The article looks at a complex subject from different perspectives and acknowledges it is difficult to assess the extent of the issue.

“It includes testimony from a range of different sources and provides appropriate context. It went through our rigorous editorial processes.

“It is important that journalism looks at issues - even where there are strongly held positions. The BBC is here to ensure debate and to make sure a wide a range of voices are heard.”

attitude.co.uk/article/bbc-responds-to-backlash-to-article-about-lesbians-being-pressured-into-sex-by-some-trans-women-1/26090/

@VladmirsPoutine

I think a lot of the anger stems from what essentially is the state broadcaster shining a negatively damaging light on a minoritised group who already face multiple challenges.

I'd have more sympathy with you if you added "which, of course, are mostly of their own making".

Is there anyone on this board who opposes the right of people to -

Campaign for and gain third spaces
Be called what they like
Present how they like

The challenges TW face seem to mainly be about overcoming the barriers women are trying to erect to keep men out of single sex spaces.

@VladmirsPoutine

I think a lot of the anger stems from what essentially is the state broadcaster shining a negatively damaging light on a minoritised group who already face multiple challenges.

Abusive men? Surely the ones responsible for the 'negative light' are those men and their actions. Not the BBC shining a light on them?

And I would prefer abusive men to face more challenges to carrying out their abuse, not less.

@VladmirsPoutine

I think a lot of the anger stems from what essentially is the state broadcaster shining a negatively damaging light on a minoritised group who already face multiple challenges.

Challenges in other people not wanting to play along with their fantasies, largely.

PickAChew I don't believe in the current dogma TWAW, but equally I don't see trans people, or more specifically trans women, as essentially biological men playing make believe. But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers.

Do you mean women?

I was meaning lesbians, specifically. The subject of the article...

@VladmirsPoutine

PickAChew I don't believe in the current dogma TWAW, but equally I don't see trans people, or more specifically trans women, as essentially biological men playing make believe. But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers.

NAMALT so we should look the other way?

I disagree

The fact that they interviewed transwomen who clearly expressed their disgust at the abuse of the lesbians demonstrates clearly that it isn't all trans at all

And the headline was quite explicit ...some isn't all

I`m sure for some its more complicated than "playing make believe", but the end result, as this article points out, is that some male bodied people feel entitled to bully lesbians. Lesbians (and all women) are perfectly entitled to call this behaviour out.

@VladmirsPoutine

PickAChew I don't believe in the current dogma TWAW, but equally I don't see trans people, or more specifically trans women, as essentially biological men playing make believe. But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers.

As Lang always said, there can be no sacred caste of men that is beyond criticism because abusive men WILL infiltrate and WILL abuse. And I have to question anyone who would prefer these men to be off limits and women silenced. To me, it is the wilful enabling of abuse.

When I read the article, I thought how awful it was for the lesbian who were sharing their experience of rape and coercive abuse. And what needs to be done to protect them.

'and threatened police involvement on any transgender people who were provoked by their bigotted actions'

Is pretty telling, I think

@VladmirsPoutine

PickAChew I don't believe in the current dogma TWAW, but equally I don't see trans people, or more specifically trans women, as essentially biological men playing make believe. But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers.

With all due respect (and I mean that), if that's what you walked away thinking, something that wasn't part of the article was interfering with your reading comprehension skills.

That can happen with all kinds of things, of course, but given how carefully the article was framed, such a conclusion is neither logical nor justified.

I would argue that influencing your impression was the wider debate, in particular the claim that women's rights campaigners like me supposedly object to the presence of male members of the trans community in female-only provisions because we are alleged to believe they are all predators.

I don't think they are all predators though, just as I don't think that all men are predators. I've never claimed them to be, neither have my fellow campaigners.

Now don't get me wrong, I know a woman or two who do believe all men are predators, based on serial lifelong abuse they experienced at the hands of many men. And as far as I'm concerned, that's a perfectly understandable conclusion for them to reach based on the available evidence. But they're not leading a campaign or make any demands on the basis of their views and they understand that their view is neither representative nor objectively true.

I'm also not understanding how your last sentence follows from the first. You don't believe they're all playing make believe, but the article leaves the impression, they're all miscreant abusers?

I conclude from that sentence that you object to the fact that those like me believe they are all men ("biological" is redundant here, as men are male). How can I believe otherwise though? It is material reality. That's not to say that I believe that no man can ever successfully present as a woman. He can. However, that doesn't change his sex.

You're assuming that most, if not all of us, think the worst of male members of the trans community. But I would like you to consider that I have little opinion on or interest in why any given man identifies as trans, because their motivations are wholly irrelevant to my aims to uphold the sex-based rights of women and girls. That's because their individual motivation has no bearing on the overall needs of women and girls that gave rise to those sex-based rights.

I am confused as to why anyone reading that article would leave thinking that all transwomen are abusers. That is not what the article said at all.

I thought the article put a spotlight on the plight of some young lesbians. I found their experience of rape and abuse horrific. To be honest, I also feel sick that some people don’t believe this or are trying to hush up their lives experience.

And in addition warned that some prominent TRAs had in the past expressed very questionable views (transphobic for lesbians not to have sex with transwomen).

I found it telling that those people (Riley Dennis and the cyclist person) didn’t want to comment. I believe Dennis has taken down their video?

@VladmirsPoutine

PickAChew I don't believe in the current dogma TWAW, but equally I don't see trans people, or more specifically trans women, as essentially biological men playing make believe. But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers.

Only if you ignore the crucial word, "some"

attitude.co.uk/article/rosie-jones-slams-bbc-article-about-lesbians-pressured-into-sex-by-some-trans-women-1/26087/

From The Attitude "backlash" article above.
"Stonewall co-founder Lisa Power also addressed the article on Twitter, writing: "I’ve been a lesbian for almost 50 years. I’ve known trans women, mostly lesbians, all that time". (my bold).

By mostly lesbians I infer that to be straight men but perhaps someone could make better sense of it than me.

@NecessaryScene

Do you mean women?

I was meaning lesbians, specifically. The subject of the article...

Cool. I was a bit worried you meant trans men and women

The reaction oh my God you think all transwomen are predators is because women are constantly having to come up with reasons why they don't want men in their spaces.

That's why certain people have taken an article to mean all transwomen. They see it as an attempt at justification to keep men out of women's spaces.

They think that if women can paint transwomen, in general, as predators, it's game over. Because, to them, women's assertion that they want their own spaces just isn't enough. They need a better reason. And they think that article is trying to get one.

If they would just allow women to say no, they wouldn't need to frame our arguments as disproportionate.

Mr Paisley appears to be a tad grumpy. The BBC are internally sharing a memo that says they received almost 2,500 positive comments on the article!

Keep commenting women!

Given that people are more likely to complain than praise , that's very good

It's on the BBC news app now

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59074096

PickAChew I don't believe in the current dogma TWAW, but equally I don't see trans people, or more specifically trans women, as essentially biological men playing make believe. But reading that article you'd be forgiven for thinking trans women (particularly) are all miscreant abusers.

If that article had been about (some) men using some specific method to try and coerce women into sex, no one would have batted an eyelid, because its so endemic in our society we barely even notice it. It would have been blah blah, yes we know this, next.....

So how come when men simply 'identify as women', suddenly its absolutely impossible to believe that any of them would coerce women into sex and to even want to discuss it is hateful bigotry?

What is so fucking magical about the words 'I identify as a woman?

@VladmirsPoutine

I think a lot of the anger stems from what essentially is the state broadcaster shining a negatively damaging light on a minoritised group who already face multiple challenges.

Yes.

But that doesn’t make it improper or gratuitously cruel / negative to draw a convection between the policy shift of a major national charity with a huge political and corporate influence, and the lived experience of people also facing multiple challenges.

The voices of lesbian women have been constantly derided and closed down in the emergence of the call or trans rights. The cotton ceiling workshop was exposed years ago, Get The L Out demo was how many years ago? The LGBA has taken a few years to set up and establish.

Meanwhile CG women have been dragged through the courts and been highlighted in the press for their views, bringing hate down on their heads.

I know trans people face harassment, hate crime, discrimination and attack. But I strongly suspect that their vulnerability on a late night bus is not due to feminists and / or lesbians.

The stats of women who have faced sexual assault/ harassment/ pressure for sex are really really high.

It would be nice to see Transwomen acknowledge this, understand it, join the fight for women to be free of unwanted sexual attention, rather than protest against and undermine them (as in the Filia and Girls Night In instances) , or become dismissive, in denial or defensive when Lesbians speak out about pressure from Transwomen.

[quote Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet]It's on the BBC news app now

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59074096[/quote]
I'm glad to see this piece about the 'open letter' has a link to the original article so will give more people the opportunity to read the latter now it's been hidden away.