WPUK: A Woman’s Place is NOT in prison

[Cwenthryth]

I’m heading town to this meeting in central London tonight. There’s a hashtag #WPUKPrisons to follow for live tweeting and as ever everything will be uploaded as videos later.

Am very interested to learn more about this topic, as it is an area I know little about beyond headlines. Especially interested to see where any commonality may be with those self-proclaimed “intersectional feminists” who say we all have to be “anti-carceral”.

Surely they should be in favour of women not being imprisoned? It could increase the likelihood of somebody only discovering their True and Authentic Self whilst awaiting sentencing being released.

When will recordings be available? I wish I could have been there.

Were there any reps from the home office I wonder?

Thread showing films of a particular protest outside. Luckily only a handful who clearly have no idea what the meeting is about (I'd hope.)

twitter.com/thewomencov/status/1453507344776798216?s=21

It makes me furious as I know of a well off ex professional man who's wrecked his family through his addiction and collection of films of csa over 10 years, including two counts of making, and has simply had a suspended sentence for 2 years.

Presumably as prisons are so full of similar men and also as he manipulated the authorities and "demonstrated" a willingness to change. Which has since involved harassing and continuing to verbally abuse his ex wife (and others) and try to manipulate his young children.

[quote WarriorN]When will recordings be available? I wish I could have been there.

Were there any reps from the home office I wonder?

Thread showing films of a particular protest outside. Luckily only a handful who clearly have no idea what the meeting is about (I'd hope.)

twitter.com/thewomencov/status/1453507344776798216?s=21[/quote]
Wow...do they really have no idea how bad this makes them look? Insulting women's looks and shouting "Shut the fuck up, cunt!" through a megaphone right in a woman's face.

Misogynistic protesters at women's events isn't a bug, it's a feature.

Thing is, a lot of people might write these fools off as aggressive weirdos. The sort of people who you cross the road to avoid in real life.

But unfortunately, this is exactly the sort of people who get recruited to help with the organised misogyny.

And I can't believe they were allowed to get right in peoples faces like that. Straightforward harassment.

I'd like to see barriers beyond which they're not allowed to go.

Thank you to all the people stewarding last night. Such a shame that people were subjected to such pathetic abuse by a bunch of clowns.

I loved the meeting. One speaker (the one speaking about mothers in prison) had half the audience in tears, and got a standing ovation.

One set of facts which stuck with me was all the information about people who commit crimes as men, then 'transition' in prison, then once they are released, describe themselves as men once more. Quelle surprise!

If a woman commits a crime punishable by a prison sentence why should it not apply. Absent fathers in prison impact on families too. Should they not go to prison either.

@Viviennemary

If a woman commits a crime punishable by a prison sentence why should it not apply. Absent fathers in prison impact on families too. Should they not go to prison either.

When the talks are uploaded some of the discussion may be around the things for which women are imprisoned that men tend not to be. E.g., imprisonment for failure to pay the fine for not having a TV licence (related to poverty and the status of many of the women as single mothers).

Women tend to be imprisoned for very different and mostly non-violent crimes.

It will be worth watching some of the talks.

They did extremely well. Turning their backs was a good strategy. I'm glad it didn't turn any nastier than it already was. The two most vocal TRAs seemed pretty aggressive.

I can't believe that the T/M RAs get away with their abuse, without ANY police intervention

@Viviennemary

If a woman commits a crime punishable by a prison sentence why should it not apply. Absent fathers in prison impact on families too. Should they not go to prison either.

I have posted two links to orgs.

The one I would recommend first is the prisons reform trust. Been around for years. Well thought of quoted in media in past etc.

Relevant page is here - about women. They are interested in the whole prison system though.

I really worry about YOI personally. I don't know if that's something you're interested in- I have some links if interested.

www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/WhatWeDo/Projectsresearch/Women

In the male estate in England Wales at the mo I'd say the things on my mind are-

Privatisation impact. Reduced staff expertise. Increased risk and fear all round.
Massive drug issue. Disaster for the men.
Men with MH issues often from really bad pasts, no treatment.
Violence...
And so on.

I highly recommend the Bromley briefing here - really good overview of whole thing.

www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/Publications/Factfile

Some of the issue is - which crimes are punishable by custodial sentences, and understanding how female offending differs from male offending in its origins/causes (largely as victims of violence rather than perpetrators of). And yes, many men should not be in prison either. Absent fathers do impact on children, but significantly less than absent mothers do in the majority of cases due to who is their primary carer. When a mother is imprisoned 90-95% of children cannot stay in their own home. When fathers are imprisoned most children remain in their own homes with their mothers.

It is not appropriate to be putting women in prison because they’re shoplifting to feed their kids, haven’t paid their tv licence, or their children are truanting, and react poorly when arrested by male police officers due to previous traumatic violent experiences at the hands of men. There are better ways to deal with these mainly social rather than criminal issues.

Thanks for explaining. I need to be better informed.

No probs Vivienne.

It's something I just happen to have been concerned about for years. Prisons in general, with it coming up every few years in media. Men getting murdered in prison. That should be seen as appalling. It seems to be shrugged off at a population level. Not a group anyone is interested in much in the end.

Always happy to share info if I have some! At the moment it's annoying as so many issues eg this one are suddenly being pulled out by those who know fuck all as a gotcha. Often referencing things more to do with USA. And then people like me get accused of not caring until males in women's prisons

It's so tedious. Anyway hope you find it useful. If you really want to get into the topic over the years (decades!) I'm positive there have been govt reports periodically on situation, what's going wrong, what needs changing etc etc.

Oh oops I think you were thanking OP!

Sorry!

Well the links etc are there if needed as well

I was thanking you and the others who replied to my post. Thanks for the links too.

Cool then just reread and thought oops might have misunderstood!

All good then :)

It's a great thread and I totally agree with most things here but... nobody is imprisoned for nonpayment of a TV licence for some time now, it's a civil offence. I'll be honest, I wish that didn't keep getting repeated.

The 'protestors' looked like they thought they were being a hilarious drag act half the time. They really weren't. I don't think people should be arrested at an anti carceral event tbh. Moved on though, and perhaps they should have their megaphone confiscated.

I thought that the TV licence people were one of the small number who can bring prosecutions apart from CPS?

Prison aside, Google told me that they have a huge impact on women generally-

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/tv-licence-fee-women-convictions-b1763192.html

'Almost a third of women’s convictions are for not paying the TV licence fee, figures have revealed.

Women are ten times more likely to be convicted for not paying the £157.50 annual fee than men – with growing numbers of women then being slapped with criminal records, Ministry of Justice data shows.

The ministry’s report admits the chief reason why so many women wind up being prosecuted is because they are more likely to open the door to inspectors.'

I mean that's shit IMO.

Convictions, yes absolutely and it's a sexust impact and shit. But not prison, which is what this thread is about.

It's all very strange. The articles I looked at, the license people did say that non payment on purpose could result in prison.

I have read that court time is massively taken up with these prosecutions. Very wonky.

Didn't press post and been googling. Was going to be decriminalised 2020 but then shelved. Still a criminal offence.

It's a great thread and I totally agree with most things here but... nobody is imprisoned for nonpayment of a TV licence for some time now, it's a civil offence. I'll be honest, I wish that didn't keep getting repeated.

I got that from a slide at WPUK on a Twitter thread on the label so it might be worth fact-checking when the relevant bit is posted. I wasn't there so I don't know if there were a verbal caveat around it.

Interestingly a FOI about women in prison for this, they said not in public interest. 2019 some time.

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/858034/foi-190903018-court-proceedings-outcomes-tv-licence-evasion.doc&ved=2ahUKEwj-3Ourwu7zAhXilFwKHZUfAdwQFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WkAP7XanW757tGFewEHIS" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/858034/foi-190903018-court-proceedings-outcomes-tv-licence-evasion.doc&ved=2ahUKEwj-3Ourwu7zAhXilFwKHZUfAdwQFnoECBUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1WkAP7XanW757tGFewEHIS

Govt consultation response, not going ahead with decrim will think again later

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/953930/Government_response_to_the_decriminalisation_consultation_-_21_January_2021.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj-3Ourwu7zAhXilFwKHZUfAdwQFnoECC0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2UQjGLpNwNJrQKGtNmvbdw" rel="nofollow" target="blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/953930/Government_response_to_the_decriminalisation_consultation-_21_January_2021.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwj-3Ourwu7zAhXilFwKHZUfAdwQFnoECC0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw2UQjGLpNwNJrQKGtNmvbdw

Etc etc