WPUK: A Woman’s Place is NOT in prison

[Cwenthryth]

I’m heading town to this meeting in central London tonight. There’s a hashtag #WPUKPrisons to follow for live tweeting and as ever everything will be uploaded as videos later.

Am very interested to learn more about this topic, as it is an area I know little about beyond headlines. Especially interested to see where any commonality may be with those self-proclaimed “intersectional feminists” who say we all have to be “anti-carceral”.

I am looking forward to seeing the video of this event...

Protestors ? Do they realise what they are protesting? Or just saw WPUK and decided it was a good idea?

Do they realise what they are protesting? Or just saw WPUK and decided it was a good idea?

They don't seem to have gone there to address the specific topic of the meeting. Some interesting points being raised about the overall impact of prison experience on women, children, and pre-natal care.

It's two different topics with different backgrounds.

Women in prison in England/ Wales (UK but split as devolution etc) have been a topic for years and years. Feminists and other groups.

Around should so many be in prison. Things like. Nature of offences, backgrounds, acting for others, impact on families, all sorts of stuff.

There are various groups that have been raising it for years and it comes up every few years in media.

Separately

There is the concept of anti carceralism (is that a word?). It's made its way into more mainstream UK attention. Via things like, many trans orgs being anti carceral, the phrase anti carceral feminism etc.

This phrase and argument has been, like so many other concepts and arguments in the last few years. Picked up from USA where it makes way more sense. And just used here even though it's a totally different context.

The USA I'm sure we're all well aware has massive problems. Too many to list let alone go into but things like. That it's run as an industry. The output from the work done is a astonishingly large % of USA economic output. The racism, differentials in sentencing for similar crimes due to various factors about the person. The existence of eye wateringly long terms for relatively not huge crimes. The proportion of black men who will go to prison. The % of population in prison.

In short. Huge awful issues. That is what the anti carceral thing is/ was about.

Bandying it around often by those who just like sounding progressive/ edgy etc is devaluing it's meaning in USA. And makes no sense here.

So hth!

One org

womeninprison.org.uk/about/our-mission

There are more.

Note that a document.. the trans something manifesto..? Associated with an org which is still around.

Included a demand to release all trans prisoners immediately.

There is a lot of stuff eg with WiSpa where some/ many say that trans people are at high risk of being targeted by the police (could be if obvious TW esp in USA) AND getting charged imprisoned for essentially made up charges (hmmm not sure) esp sex offences.

I mean in USA who knows. Certainly with prostitution around the world the police can be awful.

However when it's claimed about those who seem to be bog standard flashers it gets pretty dodgy.

I would imagine the meeting is being protested because

it's WPUK
Will be generally women attending who may be guilty of wrongthink

And IF any of them know specifics of meeting it would be

Focus on women in prison and not including male estate
A lot of it is to do with female biology/ sex role. Children etc.

That's my take.

what is the WP view on (a) violent and sexual offenders (b) people traffickers (c) death by dangerous driving with alcohol.
Do they believe no women should be in prison or just much fewer.

I don’t believe this is something WPUK take a view on as an organisation - they are a group who platform women to discuss issues around women’s social justice, basically. Individual speakers gave some views on this, Frances Crook gave her opinion that all but a handful of women should not be in prison; another speaker suggested steps such as abolishing short custodial sentences (

Protestors are nowhere to be seen now, just walking home as it’s a school night, no pub for me.

Brilliant event tonight!

The young man in the slip dress with the loudspeaker actually frightened me a bit, I'm embarrassed to say. Luckily the great staff rushed us in when he got close to the entrance.

Rather confusingly, he was shouting at a 70ish-year-old couple ahead of me that people their age should be ashamed given they will be aware of the Suffragettes? So enlightened, these people picking out older, and non-white attendees for special abuse .

The protesters are like any bunch of tanked-up males, giving women abuse as they walk home at night. I particularly liked the one saying, 'Don't you want a body like this?' Well, I suppose it would have come in handy when I was moving some furniture the other day, and I'd feel a lot safer walking the streets if I was that burly, but otherwise no.

They were not protestors tonight, on reflection. They had no point in mind they wanted to communicate, other than to turn up and harass and abuse women. That’s all they did. They should have been arrested to be honest. It was not legitimate protest, it was antisocial behaviour intended to intimidate and harass women.

Any signs being waved etc?

Pink News should be interviewing that Weight Watchers rep. Free advertising.

@Cwenthryth

They were not protestors tonight, on reflection. They had no point in mind they wanted to communicate, other than to turn up and harass and abuse women. That’s all they did. They should have been arrested to be honest. It was not legitimate protest, it was antisocial behaviour intended to intimidate and harass women.

It was sounding like street harassment by a group of people hoping this was a casting call for an, as yet, unannounced web drama with roles for people who stand and shout "Shame" in the manner of Princess Bride . However, if their banter was a rehearsal for ad libbing during said dramas then I doubt they'll be getting a callback.

Yeah some dude told Julie bindel she should go to weight watchers

There seemed like there was about 5 protesters. One guy warbling away on a loudspeaker.

Just not so much having a clue what the meeting was about.

Bleating their usual bleat bleat. They ought to get tambourines.

No signs gerbil

Just bleat bleat bleat and flags round their shoulders

Dullards

Lolol

The irrepressible male ego.

This perpetual certainty that a man saying anything to a woman or girl that means. I don't fancy yours much. Is THE insult to end all insults.

When I came in, the thin one is In black was repeatedly shouting at a woman in her 70s "I'll suck your dick!"

Protest is a legitimate democratic exercise. This was not protest. This was street harrassment.

Anyway, lots to take in tonight about the issue of women in prison. I’m absolutely exhausted (not well and probably did too much today on reflection, should have rested more to allow for going out this evening!). But just wanted to share this slide. This is what tonight was about, not the abusive males outside the venue. I snapped this slide of further resources to learn more about women in prison, hope people find it useful.

Thanks Cwenthryth

Look no upthread to an org if anyone interested.

I'll see if I can find a couple of others sure have seen over years...

www.prisonreformtrust.org.uk/WhatWeDo/Projectsresearch/Women

Reflection this morning. My takehome from last night was the phrase “we are criminalising women’s poverty and trauma”.

All the systems we have fail women. Lack of support for children in the care system and leaving care; lack of mental health services;

My takehome from last night was the phrase “we are criminalising women’s poverty and trauma”.

Among all the statistics that was the phrase that stuck with me from the Twitter comments. That and the one about punishing women for their roles and mothers and daughters.

Thanks for the thread.

Oops pressed post cos the cat jumped on me and now I’ve lost my train of thought but the problems leading to women being in prison go on and on - benefits system keeping people poor, lack of childcare meaning work doesn’t pay for low-income/poorly educated single mothers; overstretched social services meaning poor support for those who need it; lack of available treatment for substance misuse issues, poor training of magistrates leading to unduly harsh sentences for non-violent infractions, poor understanding of gendered violence and women’s trauma by the police and judiciary meaning women are prosecuted and punished rather than underlying issues explored supported and improved…. etc etc etc…..all leads to women being incarcerated, separated from their children, children being left with their violent male partners/ex-partners, pregnant women giving birth and babies dying in prison cells.

I don’t think this has turned me
“anti-carceral” - or even “anti-carceral for non-violent offences”, because I would still support custody as punishment for eg. major fraud, grand theft etc, as well as managing violent offenders who are a danger to the public.

But what is so clear to anyone just taking a passing glance is that, as Rosie Duffield put it, sometimes the slippery slope is the only path available. And to change that needs wholesale radical shift in how we approach the most vulnerable members of our society - it applies to both sexes, but as we know, women are always hit worse than men alongside any other factor that affects both sexes (poverty, being in care, poor education etc).

All very depressing stuff really, I’m going to think more later about what positive actions we as armchair activists can take, what organisations and individuals we can support, what we should be asking of our political representatives.