For the Attention of Posters in the "bloody terf" thread

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

So we can stop disrupting the OP's thread, and continue the discussion here.

Why do you assume there must be a single universal way to be a woman?

Because language means something, and it's how we define our rights and obligations.

Without defined terms, the law means nothing and all the rights and protections and duties that people currently have fall away, as there's no way to interpret the law when each word can mean everything at nothing simultaneously.

I don't understand why anyone would want to undo civilisation to the point that we have to start from scratch with language and the legal system. As in actually go back to before we had a way to communicate with speech. Is dismantling language entirely really what you think needs to happen?

Or is it just the word "woman" that you think needs to be dismantled?

*@BloodinGutters
"You have not mentioned the vast majority of women who, by nature of having no gender identity are nether cis nor trans, but I will assume you mean those women too."

If they call themselves "women", then that is their gender identity. The label itself is the gender identity. Not "associated gender expectations" or whatever.*

I have no gender identity and you have absolutely no right to tell me that I do. Women is not a gender identity label just because you say it is. I call myself women as I have xx chromosomes. What would you suggest I call myself if I have no gender identity but recognise my femaleness?

[quote SillyStrings423]@BloodinGutters
"You have not mentioned the vast majority of women who, by nature of having no gender identity are nether cis nor trans, but I will assume you mean those women too."

If they call themselves "women", then that is their gender identity. The label itself is the gender identity. Not "associated gender expectations" or whatever.[/quote]
I call myself a woman because I am an adult human female.

So does the fact that I call myself hazel-eyed mean that I have a hazel-eye identity? Or that I call myself blonde, does that mean I have a blonde identity? No. They are just simple facts about my body. As with its sex. I am female. I'm and adult human, therefore I am a woman. It's not a "gender identity", it's just a fact.

[quote SillyStrings423]@BloodinGutters
"You have not mentioned the vast majority of women who, by nature of having no gender identity are nether cis nor trans, but I will assume you mean those women too."

If they call themselves "women", then that is their gender identity. The label itself is the gender identity. Not "associated gender expectations" or whatever.[/quote]
I have reported your post for misgendering.

Disgusting that you think you have the right to push me into a box and tell me what my identity is.

[quote Whatiswrongwithmyknee]*@BloodinGutters
"You have not mentioned the vast majority of women who, by nature of having no gender identity are nether cis nor trans, but I will assume you mean those women too."

If they call themselves "women", then that is their gender identity. The label itself is the gender identity. Not "associated gender expectations" or whatever.*

I have no gender identity and you have absolutely no right to tell me that I do. Women is not a gender identity label just because you say it is. I call myself women as I have xx chromosomes. What would you suggest I call myself if I have no gender identity but recognise my femaleness?[/quote]
So, intersex women who have different chromosome configurations than XX aren't women?

they simply do not want to be "men" at all, even if the societal expectations were magically poofed away.

but why not? what is it about 'man' that doesn't work for you? what is it about 'woman' that does?

So, intersex women who have different chromosome configurations than XX aren't women?

The very small number of people with intersex conditions have repeatedly asked to not be dragged into your politics like this. Please respect others.

[quote SillyStrings423]@BloodinGutters
"You have not mentioned the vast majority of women who, by nature of having no gender identity are nether cis nor trans, but I will assume you mean those women too."

If they call themselves "women", then that is their gender identity. The label itself is the gender identity. Not "associated gender expectations" or whatever.[/quote]
No woman is my sex, end of. It is my womanhood that has grown and birthed 3 babies and go onto breastfeed them extensively. It is partly my womanhood that increases my risk of breast cancer above that of the average woman, it is my womanhood that means i have to have cervical smears, I could go on.

Do not fucking tell me that this is because of something I identify as and imply that I could identify out of any sex based risks if I just wanted to.

[quote SillyStrings423]@BloodinGutters
"You have not mentioned the vast majority of women who, by nature of having no gender identity are nether cis nor trans, but I will assume you mean those women too."

If they call themselves "women", then that is their gender identity. The label itself is the gender identity. Not "associated gender expectations" or whatever.[/quote]
O-ho! you get to put me in a box, do you?

I am an adult female human. The word for that is woman. I am not a woman because I identify as such, I am simply aware I am a woman because I have eyes. If I was comatose right now I would still be a woman.

But on that subject. Suppose I had been comatose for a decade since I was 14 and was thus, by virtue of being in a persistent vegetative state, incapable of having any thoughts on the matter?

Would I be neither a man nor a woman?

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

they simply do not want to be "men" at all, even if the societal expectations were magically poofed away.

but why not? what is it about 'man' that doesn't work for you? what is it about 'woman' that does?

Quite literally the words themselves, paired with the painful combination of social and physical dysphoria.

Ideally, I'd find myself simply wake up with the kind of body I want, but the next best thing is to simply reshape my own body and identity over time, using the means avaliable to me.

And I'm sick of authoritarians trying to restrict my ability to do so.

Quite literally the words themselves, paired with the painful combination of social and physical dysphoria.

Ideally, I'd find myself simply wake up with the kind of body I want, but the next best thing is to simply reshape my own body and identity over time, using the means avaliable to me.

And I'm sick of authoritarians trying to restrict my ability to do so.

Why not move to one of these countries and learn to speak the language there?

thesocietypages.org/socimages/2014/10/11/map-of-the-week-57-of-languages-do-not-have-gendered-pronouns/

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee
Looks like we devolved into dishonest facetious bullshit. As usual with you lot.

It is not disingenuous to be furious with your attempt to define my identity, your hypocrisy and your disrespect of intersex people. You have devolved into insult throwing rather than discussion - as usual with you lot.

But sillystring, your desire to not be seen as a man, doesn't mean you are not one. In your drive to not be seen and identified by others as a man, adult human male, you are demanding society removes the current meaning of the the word woman and man from laws. And you really expect women to just nod and agree? Really? How naive....

And I'm sick of authoritarians trying to restrict my ability to do so.

This is a very telling post.

@sanluca

But sillystring, your desire to not be seen as a man, doesn't mean you are not one. In your drive to not be seen and identified by others as a man, adult human male, you are demanding society removes the current meaning of the the word woman and man from laws. And you really expect women to just nod and agree? Really? How naive....

I see that I am not alone in my interpretation of @SillyStrings423's post.

*Ideally, I'd find myself simply wake up with the kind of body I want, but the next best thing is to simply reshape my own body and identity over time, using the means avaliable to me.

And I'm sick of authoritarians trying to restrict my ability to do so.*

Well me too. My body is not the kind I want. I empathise though I expect there are different parts of our bodies we don't like and for different reasons. But can you tell us how anyone here is trying to restrict your ability to change your body?

[quote SillyStrings423]@BloodinGutters
"You have not mentioned the vast majority of women who, by nature of having no gender identity are nether cis nor trans, but I will assume you mean those women too."

If they call themselves "women", then that is their gender identity. The label itself is the gender identity. Not "associated gender expectations" or whatever.[/quote]
You’re @ the wrong person.

But still.

What identity comes with the label?

To be an identity a label must have some meaning so what meaning do you attribute to the label woman?

social and physical dysphoria

what form did the social dysphoria take?

and no-one here is trying to restrict your ability to reshape your body (assuming you are an adult). The way you perceive your identity is also your own business, I hope you have a perception of your identity that makes you happy.

The way I perceive you is my business. And I will be able to tell what sex you are

Ahhhh I see “intersex” has arrived to help fill the bingo card

Clearly the fact that people with DSD who have repeatedly asked for the conditions that they live with not to be used by TRA as a gotcha continues to be ignored. It’s almost as if TRA couldn’t give a shiny shit about the actual issues for ppl with DSD.

[quote SillyStrings423]@Blibbyblobby
"The Genderist view is, I think, that we should keep (B) and (C) but get rid of (A)."

Not really.

A woman, cis or trans, can live and present however she wants. There is no requirement to be feminine, nor does anyone presenting feminine need to be a woman.

A man, cis or trans, can live and present however she wants. There is no requirement to be masculine, nor does anyone presenting masculine need to be a man.

A non-binary person, can live and present however they want. There is no requirement to be androgynous, nor does anyone presenting androgynous need to be non-binary.

But they can be.

That is what the "genderist" view is. We keep trying to tell you. There doesn't need to be a "link" between presentation and identity.
There is no such obligation.

You may think that's "similar" to what you believe, but it is not. Because unlike me and other trans people and allies, you believe in restricting and policing other people's identities. We do not.[/quote]
That is what the "genderist" view is. We keep trying to tell you. There doesn't need to be a "link" between presentation and identity.
There is no such obligation.

You may think that's "similar" to what you believe, but it is not. Because unlike me and other trans people and allies, you believe in restricting and policing other people's identities. We do not.

No, you entirely miss the point.

Gender Critical people simply do not attach any concept of Identity to the physical fact of sex. It is literally impossible to "link" or "police" an identity through a Gender Critical use of sex, because the Gender Critical concept of sex says nothing whatsoever about Identity!

It was Genderists who redefined Woman and Man to be identities not just physical facts, and it's Genderists who then complain that imposing Woman or Man, or any provision based on sex, is "restricting and policing other people's identities".

Do you see that? Misgendering can only exist in the Genderist world! It is a problem Genderists invented for themselves when they invented Gender Identity and appropriated the pre-existing sex names to label it, because they have put themselves in the position of having to interpret any sex-based application of those labels as a statement about Identity.

@AlfonsoTheUnrepetant

And I'm sick of authoritarians trying to restrict my ability to do so.

This is a very telling post.

Indeed. We now can identify Sillystring as a transwoman who does not ever want to be reminded they are born a man and so has to come tell women they have to accept woman now means whatever someone tells them it means. Which is personal and unidentifiable by others. And shows just why it would be the end of anything currently segregated by biological sex because there are no words anymore for the two sex classes. Because Sillystring doesn't want to belong to the sex of adult human males.

You do however seem to almost savor your victimhood in a way.

Bitter that recognizing trans women as facing many of the same forms of oppression will somehow make your own victimhood feel less "exclusive" and "special".

deary, deary me