For the Attention of Posters in the "bloody terf" thread

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

So we can stop disrupting the OP's thread, and continue the discussion here.

But trans women and trans men do feel comfortable using women's and men's restrooms

Pity they don't care about the discomfort they might cause to others.

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Transphobic cis people

That's not our identity. It's a word which only makes sense in an ideology we reject. Like saying people are infidels or heretics because they don't believe in your god.

Yeah, yeah, just like how homophobes reject the words "homophobic straight people" because "they're not afraid of gays" and "it's called being normal".

Here's the thing: A bigot's opinion on the words I use to describe them and their bigotry is utterly irrelevant to me.

*You insist that the word must mean the thing you want it to mean, and that all other uses of the word are invalid.

Same nonsense about "redefining of words".*

Oh my god, I think you must have been hit on the heat. You are the one insisting that words should mean what you want them to mean. The definition of woman is adult human female. You don't like that definition so are trying to change it to something which suits your agenda better. I am struggling to believe that you are a real poster as what you are saying is so clearly ridiculous.

@334bu

*But trans women and trans men do feel comfortable using women's and men's restrooms*

Pity they don't care about the discomfort they might cause to others.

They do, actually. Most trans women are nervous wrecks when they're at the point where they don't pass enough to use women's bathrooms, but are too far in their transition to use men's.

Do you seriously think trans women want to stand out when using the bathroom? Do you think trans women don't want to pass and ve able to just use women's bathrooms without trouble just like anyone else?

Here's the thing: A bigot's opinion on the words I use to describe them and their bigotry is utterly irrelevant to me.
So ,I can call transwomen, who call themselves lesbians, bigoted homophobes. Good to know.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

*You insist that the word must mean the thing you want it to mean, and that all other uses of the word are invalid.

Same nonsense about "redefining of words".*

Oh my god, I think you must have been hit on the heat. You are the one insisting that words should mean what you want them to mean. The definition of woman is adult human female. You don't like that definition so are trying to change it to something which suits your agenda better. I am struggling to believe that you are a real poster as what you are saying is so clearly ridiculous.

"The definition of marriage is a union between a man and a woman! You're changing definitions to suit your agenda!"

As I was saying.

@334bu

*Here's the thing: A bigot's opinion on the words I use to describe them and their bigotry is utterly irrelevant to me.* So ,I can call transwomen, who call themselves lesbians, bigoted homophobes. Good to know.

Nope, that's just you being transphobic. There's nothing homophobic about trans women being lesbians.

The difference is that, again, this whole thing is about you trying to police other people's lives.

They do, actually. Most trans women are nervous wrecks when they're at the point where they don't pass enough to use women's bathrooms, but are too far in their transition to use men's.

So why are they not campaigning for third spaces?

It is probably one of the most trivial youth movements ever, the only characteristic it seems to have is a desire for a certificate

Brutal summary. I laughed. The really militant activists also demand gold stars and pride of place on the fridge.

*No one is saying you have to identify with anything except the word itself. For as long as you consider that word to describe you, you are a woman.

No "stereotypes" required.*

If you redefine the word to mean anything other than adult human female than I, and most women, don't believe it describes us. This point is not going to go away not matter how much you try and invalidate it.

@334bu

*They do, actually. Most trans women are nervous wrecks when they're at the point where they don't pass enough to use women's bathrooms, but are too far in their transition to use men's.*

So why are they not campaigning for third spaces?

We are. Literally the entire point of my post is that unisex spaces would be a godsend for trans people who aren't confident enough in their progress with transition.

Then I can't help you further.

Obviously transwomen are male. That's the entry requirement.

I started with a lot more goodwill than I've got left.

I tire of shouty males attempting to bully women, & I've seen it & heard it far too often to be impressed by it.

Nope, that's just you being transphobic. There's nothing homophobic about trans women being lesbians.

There most certainly is!. Lesbians are same sex attracted females and to appropriate the language they use to describe their sexuality and say it also includes heterosexual males is the very epitome of homophobia. You are implying that their sexuality is not valid.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

*No one is saying you have to identify with anything except the word itself. For as long as you consider that word to describe you, you are a woman.

No "stereotypes" required.*

If you redefine the word to mean anything other than adult human female than I, and most women, don't believe it describes us. This point is not going to go away not matter how much you try and invalidate it.

You know what, the other user was right, this does sound just like a whiny "my special exclusive club is not special and exclusive enough anymore".

@PickAChew

Both "man" and "woman" are social and cultural identities, originally constructed around biological sex.

So TWASACIOCABS, then.

That's easy to chant.

Do you think it's going to catch on?

A “special exclusive club” that includes four billion people. Once again, the resentment and envy is palpable.

We are. Literally the entire point of my post is that unisex spaces would be a godsend for trans people who aren't confident enough in their progress with transition.

Great , so what's the problem, get organisations like Stonewall to campaign for third spaces. Everyone can be safe.

@allmywhat

A “special exclusive club” that includes four billion people. Once again, the resentment and envy is palpable.

I'm literally female. Like, by your definition and everything. There's nothing you have for me to be envious of.

You know what, the other user was right, this does sound just like a whiny "my special exclusive club is not special and exclusive enough anymore".

Pretty big club including 51% of the population. Exclusive, hardly as anyone born female gets to join.

Transphobic cis people being all coy with "uhh, technically I reject gender" after hours and hours of saying gender labels must strictly be used in a way that aligns with one's sex isn't the revolutionary idea you people think it is.

Ah, I see your confusion. We have not been insisting that 'gender labels' be used in a way that aligns with your sex. We are saying that the idea that gender is an identity is a problem - i.e. your identity never ever needs to align with your sex and any suggestion that it needs to is a problematic statement that needs to be broken down. We are just suggesting that statements about your biological sex need to relate to reality - they do not need to relate to your identity. Also you have got confused - you have not been talking to any cis people. I'm not sure there are any on this thread.

Okay. I think it might be against forum rules if I were to indicate that I don’t believe you, so I won’t. Can you explain why you think the four-billion member club of human females is “exclusive?”

You know what, sure. If trans women being recognized as women means you don't want to call yourselves women anymore, go for it.

Make up a new word for yourselves if you want. I'm actually curious what you'd come up with.

Yeah, yeah, just like how homophobes reject the words "homophobic straight people" because "they're not afraid of gays" and "it's called being normal".

Nope, nothing whatsoever like that. Being gay isn't a belief system with truth claims about reality that I disagree with. People's sexuality isn't any of my business but even if I thought it was, it doesn't require me to believe an absurd premise about my own reality.

"There's nothing you have for me to be envious of."

Critical thinking comes to mind.