For the Attention of Posters in the "bloody terf" thread

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

So we can stop disrupting the OP's thread, and continue the discussion here.

I didn’t make a joke. I asked you a question, which you didn’t answer. You have confirmed that facetious gender identities, unlike every other kind of gender identity, are illegitimate, but you haven’t explained why.

Like… is this a religion? Why is sincere belief, or willingness to perform sincere belief, such a critical ingredient of a “gender identity?”

Pointing out that your transphobic rhetoric perfectly mirrors homophobic rhetoric from the 80s is "offensive" to you, why exactly? Is it just the fact you don't like being called out, having a mirror held out to you?

Have you even read any of my posts?

What did you find transphobic about them? I have tried to engage with you but was ignored every time, even when asking you not to be homophobic.

@Gncq

Pointing out that your transphobic rhetoric perfectly mirrors homophobic rhetoric from the 80s is "offensive" to you, why exactly? Is it just the fact you don't like being called out, having a mirror held out to you?

1. Gaslighting
2. Cis is offensive, can you please stop using it you should not need to be asked again
3. Can you please stop comparing the gay rights cause with gender ideology imposition because the two things could not be more different and you should not need to be asked again.

Both involve people just trying to live their lives, and a bunch of bigots getting up in arms about it.

Your complaints about trans women being called women are no different from "sancity of marriage" bullshit.

You insist that the word must mean the thing you want it to mean, and that all other uses of the word are invalid.

Same nonsense about "redefining of words".

@allmywhat

I didn’t make a joke. I asked you a question, which you didn’t answer. You have confirmed that facetious gender identities, unlike every other kind of gender identity, are illegitimate, but you haven’t explained why.

Like… is this a religion? Why is sincere belief, or willingness to perform sincere belief, such a critical ingredient of a “gender identity?”

If you aren't genuinely identifying that way, then obviously it's not your actual identity. Especially not when your only goal is to attack and invalidate other people's identities. I shouldn't need to explain this.

Exactly PickAChew and these dogmatic zealots act all surprised when we don't suddenly say

"Oh yes, we'll we don't normally like males in women's spaces because abcxyz but this particular male here, the one that seems to especially despise women and has a total disregard for consent and boundaries, this one we'll welcome in!"

I'm absolutely certain all of you are cis, and not non-binary.

So - you have delineated two separate categories. 'cis', which you say is synonymous with 'not trans', and separately, 'not non-binary'.

I wonder why spooky excludes non-binary people from the trans umbrella? Are we meant to be doing this now?

That way you can use "women" to refer to the issues that affect both cis and trans women, and "cis women" to refer to the issues that affect cis women specifically.

I don't identify as "cis", like most women, it's a meaningless term because women are adult human females, female being the sex class which is one of the two reproductive roles needed for the continuation of the human species.

It presupposes my adherence to an ideology I robustly reject. If you want it to mean simply "not trans", then "trans woman" must mean a female person who identifies as a man.

[quote SillyStrings423]@BloodinGutters
"You have not mentioned the vast majority of women who, by nature of having no gender identity are nether cis nor trans, but I will assume you mean those women too."

If they call themselves "women", then that is their gender identity. The label itself is the gender identity. Not "associated gender expectations" or whatever.[/quote]
So is it correct that the label IS the gender identity or not?

Is there some aspect of testing whether the label is correct, spooky?
I thought it was impossible to lie about gender because the act of labelling oneself shapes the actual gender identity.

Your complaints about trans women being called women are no different from "sancity of marriage" bullshit.

I see 3) Can you please stop comparing the gay rights cause with gender ideology imposition because the two things could not be more different and you should not need to be asked again
Has been swiftly rejected.
Charming.

I campaigned for the legalisation of same-sex marriage. It did not lead to women being raped in prison, which is probably why I campaigned for it.

(Photo courtesy of WA Department of Corrections)

BYDORI MONSON SHOW
Weekdays on KIRO Radio 12pm-3pm

A half dozen men have been transferred to theWashington Correctional Center for Woman, according to an employee at the facility.

The employee tellsKIRO Radio’s Dori Monson Showthat the women’s facility in Pierce County has adopted the practice of allowing a transfer for any person who identifies as female. Those transfers are being housing in the general population with female cellmates, the employee says.

When reached for comment, the women’s correctional center neither confirmed nor denied the details in the email Dori shared with them from the anonymous employee.

“We are not able to share any specific information about allegations, reviews, and cases,” the DOC said.

The department also declined a request for an interview.

The concern among staff and inmates is a risk of sexual assault. The employee cites a recent incident in which an inmate from a male facility raped a female in the women’s prison upon arrival. The transferred inmate, according to the employee, is incarcerated for a sex offense and has “fully functional male genitalia, a history of violence and sexual depravity in the community, and has been found guilty of sexual assault against other inmates while housed in the men’s facilities.”

“He is a proven sexual predator, having committed multiple crimes against women, yet the State of Washington had no problem moving him into a women’s facility and housing him with the most vulnerable in our population (our mental health unit),” the employee wrote.

“Word of the incident has inevitably traveled throughout the facility, causing much concern amongst both inmates and staff,” the employee said. “It demonstrated the state’s willingness to put the most vulnerable of our population in harm’s way, by locking them in a cell with a proven predator, with zero accountability or repercussions for the perpetrator.”

Among the inmates transferred to the women’s facility is Donna Perry, formerly known as Douglas Perry, who was convicted for killing three sex workers. Before being charged, Perryreportedly went to Thailandfor gender reassignment surgery. Prosecutors during the trial claimed that Perry had undergone the surgery to avoid suspicion for the killings.

Also recently transferred in was Hobby Bingham, now known as Princess Zoee Marie Andromeda Love, whowas convictedfor having sex with a 12-year-old girl. Bingham is alleged by the anonymous employee to have had sex with a female inmate at the women’s facility.

Continues: mynorthwest.com/2666243/doc-washington-correctional-center-women-men-transfer/

You insist that the word must mean the thing you want it to mean, and that all other uses of the word are invalid.
I thought trans activists were the ones insisting that "woman" must mean what they want it to mean and that the common usage of the word was now invalid as it now had to refer to gender identity rather than sex?

One thing I have been wondering. As I mentioned in my earlier post, if I accept the genderist redefinition of Woman I must also accept that I am not one. But I am undoubtedly still female.

So, if I decide it's now more appropriate for me to identify as a non-binary or agender female, would I still be expected to accept a trans woman for intimate female examinations, say, or share my changing spaces, political spaces, maybe (worst case) prison spaces etc? And if yes, why, given that we share neither sex nor gender?

To be clear, I might not actually mind any of the above, I'm just wondering how the logic works.

@Gncq
"Can you please stop comparing the gay rights cause with (trans rights)"
No.

You continue to use recycled homophobic rhetoric, so I will continue to point it out.

Deal with it.

So, if I decide it's now more appropriate for me to identify as a non-binary or agender female, would I still be expected to accept a trans woman for intimate female examinations, say, or share my changing spaces, political spaces, maybe (worst case) prison spaces etc? And if yes, why, given that we share neither sex nor gender?

It's an interesting question.

This woman getting a smear was just trying to live her life and access health care.

A woman who asked to be seen by a female nurse when she went for a smear test was 'embarrassed' when she was allocated a person with 'stubble and a beard'.

Upon being called in for the procedure, the patient said she was 'distressed' to discover that the nurse was biologically male.

When she pointed out the mistake, the nurse responded that their gender was not male and that they were transsexual.

In the end, the patient decided not to go ahead with the intimate procedure and complained to theNHS.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5224421/NHS-apologises-woman-allocated-transsexual-nurse.html

@MonsignorMirth

Considering all of you aggressively reject the very notion of a gender identity that diverges from the one assigned at birth... yes, I'm absolutely certain all of you are cis, and not non-binary

You're either mistaken or lying.
By your own definition I'm not cisgender.

Just out of interest spooky, why DID you change the wording in the question I asked (biological sex) to 'gender identity assigned at birth'?
Are you saying they are the same and the terms are interchangeable?

Or did you just get it wrong - in which case can you answer the question I actually asked? Or will you ignore it because you are unable to?

Or will you ignore it because you are unable to?

How curious that this happens every single time?
And how curious that in my first post on this thread I predicted a conflation of sex and gender identity?

@Blibbybobby
"If I accept the genderist redefinition of woman I must also accept that I am not one."
How so?

No one is saying you have to identify with anything except the word itself. For as long as you consider that word to describe you, you are a woman.

No "stereotypes" required.

"Oh yes, we'll we don't normally like males in women's spaces because abcxyz but this particular male here, the one that seems to especially despise women and has a total disregard for consent and boundaries, this one we'll welcome in!"

Quite.

Yeah last time I checked gay marriages didn't lead to women being referred to as "birthing bodies" or children bring given experimental puberty suppressing drugs.

You continue to use recycled homophobic rhetoric, so I will continue to point it out.

Will you also point out the homophobia in denying people's sexuality by appropriating language used to refer to same sex attracted female people, to describe heterosexual males.

For as long as you consider that word to describe you, you are a woman.

No, because you see, it's about sex, not identity. She is a woman because she is female. There aren't any other criteria.

No one is saying you have to identify with anything except the word itself. For as long as you consider that word to describe you, you are a woman.

Just to be clear, you are saying it's possible to identify with a sequence of letters that have no definable meaning?

And you think it's us that are reinventing the attack helicopter 'joke'?

[quote SpookySeason77]@Gncq
"Can you please stop comparing the gay rights cause with (trans rights)"
No.

You continue to use recycled homophobic rhetoric, so I will continue to point it out.

Deal with it.[/quote]
You remind me of the apocryphal Northern Irish police officer who asked a Sikh man whether he was a Protestant Sikh or a Catholic Sikh.

I shouldn't need to explain this.

Well you do. What on Earth is “genuinely identifying” as something? What is an “actual identity?” And why is “genuineness” an important component of a gender identity? Judith Butler thinks that gender is performance; are performances necessarily sincere? You aren’t explaining this at all. What do you think an “identity” is and why can’t it be tongue in cheek?

Exactly how is this not a religion?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

So, if I decide it's now more appropriate for me to identify as a non-binary or agender female, would I still be expected to accept a trans woman for intimate female examinations, say, or share my changing spaces, political spaces, maybe (worst case) prison spaces etc? And if yes, why, given that we share neither sex nor gender?

It's an interesting question.

Well, the biggest issue with this is that there aren't many spaces for non-binary people, and the GC movement is not exactly helping with that...