For the Attention of Posters in the "bloody terf" thread

[PurgatoryOfPotholes]

So we can stop disrupting the OP's thread, and continue the discussion here.

See this? ----> .

That's my current level of good will after that demand.

I started this thread with a circle of good will of considerably larger diameter. Be told.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

It wouldn't actually hurt to use adjective like "cis" to identify someone as not being trans – that's what the termmeans. The persistent need to assert yourself "above" trans women is more a matter of pride than anything else.

Yes. It. Would.

Now this is going to seem blunt. But that's life.

There are a great many words that trans activists don't like which I am not using. In return, I expect that you do not call anyone except yourself "cis".

This is called reciprocity.

That's like demanding of gay people to just call you normal instead of "straight/hetero" in return for you not calling them slurs.

Well, I would say something to that, but you wouldn't take it well.

No, I don't tend to take strategic illiteracy very well, ever.

Let me just say that ideological groups often consider attacks on themselves to be attacks on the entire demographic group they claim to represent.

Like how all sorts of chauvinists think criticism of their behavior is an attack on all men.

Irrelevant. She said what she meant and she meant what she said. What you are arguing here is whether she should have said it, and your opinion on that is immaterial to whether it was clear she meant women as a class.

The term 'cis' is made up nonsense. It's a Latin prefix which means 'on this side of' which has been co-opted by TRA's only since approx. 2004.

On the one hand, women are told that they are committing literal violence if they misgender someone or use incorrect pronouns while simultaneously being told that others will refer to them as cis and it really doesn't matter if they agree or identity with the term.

It's just out and out hypocrisy.

in return for you not calling them slurs

what slurs are those then?

@SpookySeason77
I mean, you're the one who seems to insist on invalidating trans women's identities

Nobody - literally nobody - is saying that transwomen are not transwomen. What other “identity” are you on about? Hyperbolic nonsense.

Silly disappears, spooky materialises.

That's like demanding of gay people to just call you normal instead of "straight/hetero" in return for you not calling them slurs.

Please don't weaponise gay people in your arguments - it's not necessary and we've been used enough in all of this.

That's like demanding of gay people to just call you normal instead of "straight/hetero" in return for you not calling them slurs.

Nonsense. Sex-based pronouns and the nouns man and woman are not slurs.

It is akin to an atheist asking you not to call him a protestant or a heretic. It should not be that hard for you to abide by expectations on your own side.

The influx of disingenuous posters over the last day or so is, I presume, one of those periodic screenshot/deletion runs from Twitter.

Except for women who don't want to be called "cis".

That's like demanding of gay people to just call you normal instead of "straight/hetero" in return for you not calling them slurs
🙄

A better equivalence would be navigating the world if gay people demanded that we call them "heterosexual" just like all the other straight people, because they don't want to be differentiated from heterosexuals.

We comply, and if we refuse they call us names, send us rape and death threats, call the police to arrest us, hound us from our jobs and silence us from social media.

In return we ask them to negotiate a term that we are happy with to describe ourselves if that's quite alright, but they find that very difficult.

*I mean, you're the one who seems to insist on invalidating trans women's identities and reinforcing a seperation at every turn, seen even here with "TW and women", seemingly pressing the point on how they're "not real women" and inadvertently alienating them in the process.

This doesn't exactly encourage solidarity.

It wouldn't actually hurt to use adjective like "cis" to identify someone as not being trans – that's what the term means. The persistent need to assert yourself "above" trans women is more a matter of pride than anything else.*

You don't need to be the same to have solidarity - how ridiculous.
And yes it bloody would hurt to use an adjective like cis because, as has been outlined loads of times before - most women are not cis. Because to be cis you have to have a gender identity and most people don't. The term does not mean not trans, it means gender identity matching biological sex. So to call women cis is mid-gendering and aggressive. Difference does not mean one group has to be superior to the other - not sure why you are so insistent on seeing that way.

I Don't believe transwomen are women. I think they are deluded men. There, I've said it. I was perfectly happy to pretend and be kind, back in the day when they weren't harming anyone. No more. Most women (and men) agree. If your sense of identity is so fragile that you can't accept that people don't believe what you do, then you need help to come to terms with it and, frankly, it's your problem.

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

fuck me

do you people operate some sort of ticket based relay system?

you all say the same things

This.

Spooky, can you come up with other arguments that the one that says we have to accept you labelling us with a gender identity because otherwise it hurts feelings? Been there, done that.

As far as the usage of transwoman goes, other forms are banned on MN. So transwoman is all we have left. We can't call them woman because a. they aren't female humans and b. it is hard to argue the difference between two separate groups and their different conflicting needs if you have to use the same term for them. But I think that is probably your goal...

[quote SpookySeason77]@Waitwhat23
"women are told that they are committing literal violence if they misgender someone or use incorrect pronouns"

There's that callous dismissive exaggeration again... It is verbal abuse, in the same way calling someone a slur is.

Should I demonstrate to you that words can in fact be psychologically harmful or something? Because for some reason you seem to struggle to understand the concept.[/quote]
If calling a natal male who identifies as non-binary a man, or using he to speak about them is verbal abuse, then so is calling women "cis" after they've told you not to.

@PickAChew

Silly disappears, spooky materialises.

Strange that isn't it.

"I'm not straight, I'm normal!! You're the ones who are abnormal and need a special word, not me!!"

That's what you sound like, except towards trans people instead.

Coolio. I think you sound like Verruca Salt.

Given your belief in gender identity, spooky, why the insistence on misgendering women who don't believe?

I am no more "cis" than I am a sinner or infidel.

Does 'cis' mean you have and can identify a gender identity, that is called the same word that is used to describe your biological sex?

"I'm not straight, I'm normal!! You're the ones who are abnormal and need a special word, not me!!"

cor blimey

the word for adult human males is men

[quote SpookySeason77]@Waitwhat23
"women are told that they are committing literal violence if they misgender someone or use incorrect pronouns"

There's that callous dismissive exaggeration again... It is verbal abuse, in the same way calling someone a slur is.

Should I demonstrate to you that words can in fact be psychologically harmful or something? Because for some reason you seem to struggle to understand the concept.[/quote]
You really don't see your hypocrisy there? Really? Calling someone something they don't identify with vs. ....calling someone something they don't identify with?

And you've very handily ignored the first part of my pp - about how 'cis' is made up nonsense.

Should I demonstrate to you that words can in fact be psychologically harmful or something? Because for some reason you seem to struggle to understand the concept.

This comes across very much as a threat. I shouldn't be surprised though. Women are used words being used as threats towards them - www.terfisaslur.com

*"I'm not straight, I'm normal!! You're the ones who are abnormal and need a special word, not me!!"

That's what you sound like, except towards trans people instead.*

Again, you cannot argue the different needs between two distinct groups of people if you have to use the same name for them. This is why you have to force us to use cis or refer to transwomen as women. So that you can ignore the actual real differences between women and male human beings that identify as not being men. Transwomen are normal. Normal biological non-women.